Sunday, January 01, 2006

On the false teachings of Joel Osteen

The previous article Keep Christianity counterfeit-free has brought to my attention Joel Osteen, a man who was willing to compromise on the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith. Since I have not heard of Joel Osteen, I have decided to look him up on the Internet. The first thing I did was to search for the interview transcript between him and Larry King.

Here is the direct link to the transcript of the interview conducted on June 20, 2005 that I have found. And here is a shocking excerpt from the interview:
KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.
It is astonishing, but perhaps not totally unexpected, that besides misleading people with the false teachings of word-faith theology, Joel Osteen is willing to deny that salvation is only through Jesus Christ alone. This particular denial alone would fully qualify Joel Osteen as a heretic.

And by saying that unbelievers love God, Joel Osteen also deny the following Scriptural passage; that unbelievers are hostile to God and cannot please God.
The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. - Romans 8:6-9
The Wikipedia article describes Joel Osteen as the “the senior pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, North America’s largest and fastest growing church congregation, averaging approximately 30,000 adult attendees every week in 2005.”

According to the article, Joel Osteen is also “associated with the Word of faith movement in charismatic Protestantism.” During the interview with Larry King, he shows his support for this movement.
KING: What is the prosperity gospel?

OSTEEN: I think the prosperity gospel in general is -- well I don't know. I hear it too. I don't know. I think what sometimes you see is it's just all about money. That's not what I believe. It's the attitude of your heart, and so you know, we believe -- but I do believe this, that God wants us to be blessed. He wants us to be able to send our kids to college, excel in our careers. But prosperity to me, Larry, is not just money, it's having health. What good is money if you don't have health?
Besides denying Jesus Christ is the only way, the truth and the life (John 14:6), it appears that Joel Osteen is also not willing to preach on the doctrine of sin. While it is one thing to open the church to everybody (which I absolutely agree), it is quite another to minimize the gravity of sin.
OSTEEN: I have thoughts. I just, you know, I don't think that a same-sex marriage is the way God intended it to be. I don't think abortion is the best. I think there are other, you know, a better way to live your life. But I'm not going to condemn those people. I tell them all the time our church is open for everybody.

KING: You don't call them sinners?

OSTEEN: I don't.

KING: Is that a word you don't use?

OSTEEN: I don't use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don't. But most people already know what they're doing wrong. When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life. So I don't go down the road of condemning.
I, for one, would not hesitate to renounce Joel Osteen as a false teacher. A man who holds the position of “Senior Pastor” surely would know better than to compromise the doctrine of Solus Christus and the doctrine of sin. Because of this, I can only conclude that Joel Osteen has every intention to deceive the Christian community by preaching a false Christ. Joel Osteen clearly stands out as an example of why biblical discernment is necessary to distinguish the wolves from the sheep, for it is written:
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. – 2 Timothy 4:3
Update 25 June 2006! Bloggers on Joel Osteen:
Outing Joel Osteen: A Challenge to the Evangelical Blogosphere, Internet Monk
What's Wrong with Prospering? The Gospel according to Joel Osteen, Ben Witherington
The Limits of Encouragement, Albert Mohler

20 Comments:

Blogger still seeking said...

I think God is bigger than human-deduced doctrines.
Who are we to judge as sinners when all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God? This pastor guy may not be perfect, or give perfect answers, but his answers are gracious.

2/1/06 9:08 PM  
Blogger beowulf said...

Certainly God is bigger than doctrines. But to understand God, we need to go back to His Word, which is the most reliable testimony and infallible authority about Him. God has given to us His Word, so that we could know Him.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is made up of doctrines. Without doctrines, there is no gospel. The verse you quoted, Romans 3:23, is the doctrine of the sinfulness of men; that we are unable to rescue ourselves without the help of God. If you read this verse in context, it has nothing to do with judgment.

The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is a doctrine. Salvation through Jesus Christ alone is another doctrine. These are some of the doctrines that form the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Joel Osteen denies that salvation is through Jesus Christ alone. This doctrine is essential to the gospel. To preach a gospel where there are many ways to salvation is to preach a false gospel.

We are to judge because the Word of God calls us to judge. For it is written, "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1).

If you still do not understand the seriousness of compromising the doctrine of salvation through Jesus Christ alone, then I am very afraid that you have been misled by a false gospel. You have to turn back to the Word of God to discover the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

2/1/06 11:25 PM  
Blogger :)X said...

Hell has many gracious people. How can a minister of the gospel compromise the message that he is suppose to preach? We may not be perfect, but the Word is perfect for our santification and assurance of our salvation. To reject the Word of God is as good as rejecting His sanctification and His salvation.

O, pray for Osteen. Such a well-circulated writer, but what a fallen testimony.

5/1/06 9:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So many people talk about Christians not judging people. But God's word as 'beowulf' said it, says we are to judge. Now, we are not to judge unbelievers because they are already judged, but we are to judge those who are in the household of faith or say they are. Not to use the word 'sin' is basically taken words out of God's inspired word. I pray the Holy Spirit shows Joel Osteen he can't be in and of the world. We are to be God pleasers not man pleasers even if that means using words such as 'sin' or saying that without Christ, one will spend eternity in Hell.
To God be ALL the Glory!!!

1/3/06 4:00 AM  
Anonymous passerby said...

a question of perspective here. the bible did say there is no condemnation in christ. christ ministry is not one of condemnation. however, it warns you of consequences if you walk contrary to divine principles or divine blueprint. the salvation of the soul(many facets) is when you make that choice to walk in the side of light. but if one chooses otherwise, christ does not condemn. the soul will reap from his/her sowing hopefully, the individual makes a U turn as depicted in the parable of the prodical son.
this non condemnation is also depicted in the woman who was caught in adultery. christ did not condemn her instead told her to sin no more. if she heeds the command not to sin, then, salvation enters her life. but if she continues in sin and yet profess faith in christ, she is still dammed in her sin because faith without works is 'death'. so yes, believe in christ and you shall be saved only because the anointed possesses the knowledge of salvation that delivers you from dead works. that knowledge is exclusive to the elect as ordained by the almighty. they are the elected because they have been given to possess complete knowledge of divine mystery;which covers the general universal principles of life adhere by many other religious bodies. but it is not the knowledge of christ per se that saves the adulteress woman but the application of that knowledge of christ that saves her or the souls of men!! a great difference.
having said that, you will find christ enemies are mostly from religious institutions. he reserves the best scolding for those within his household!

15/6/06 8:19 PM  
Blogger beowulf said...

I believe it is important to tell the difference between condemnation and discernment. We are commanded by Jesus to discern the wolves in sheep’s clothing from the true sheep.

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?” (Matthew 7:15-16)

It is also not true that “Christ’s ministry is not one of condemnation.” Take for instance, the following verse:

“Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'” (Matthew 7:21-23)

The important question here is this: is it our responsibility as Christians to recognize sins and false teachings? The answer is, yes. There are many instances in the Scriptures that tell us to do so. So should we condemn the sinner for his sins? My answer is yes, but I do stress that there must be an element of forgiveness. It is like the preaching of the gospel: how can one preach the grace of God without preaching the wrath of God (Romans 1:18)? How can one accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior without recognizing one is a sinner who is under divine judgment and condemned to hell for his sins?

In the case of the adulterous woman, Jesus clearly recognized that the woman has sinned. He did not deny the woman’s sin of adultery or brush it off as inconsequential. The same goes for Joel Osteen. We must recognize that Joel Osteen has committed the sin of being a false teacher of Christ. We must expose his false teachings so that others will not be deceived.

In 1 Corinthians 5:1-13, we read of the man who committed adultery with his father’s wife. What did the Apostle Paul has to say about this? The apostle condemned the adulterous man. “Purge the evil person from among you,” he said. Isn’t this clearly an act of condemnation?

However, condemnation must be tempered with forgiveness and the call for the sinner to repent. In 2 Corinthians 2:6-8, the Apostle Paul wrote, “For such a one, this punishment by the majority is enough, so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him.”

So in the case of Joel Osteen, he must express "excessive sorrow" over his false teachings, and we as the Church should reaffirm our love for him, forgiving his mistakes and comforting him.

15/6/06 9:29 PM  
Anonymous passerby said...

condemnation implies 'death' sentence. why is there a need to sentence someone to death when the sinner is already positionally 'dead'? when someone is already 'dead', there is no point pronouncing death over the person. to condemn a fallen soul is similar to pronouncing death on a corpse. christ was sent to resurrect the dead. his ministry is one of mercy.
in any case, the efficacy of condemnation may be left to within the individual, religiousity and the world.
however, as mature saints, we may rebuke, reprove,correct and admonish. in the case of the apostle paul, purging is not the same as condemnation. the former intend is to ultimately save the member and not relegate the soul into eternal damnation. not even the great apostle has that power to execute the latter!
the institutionalized church may be treading on legalism unknowingly. most of them are quilty of enshrining their founders. these usually do not understand what it means to live by the living and present word.
take for instance when you quote the apostle. you have to be mindful that he did mention he hope to have the mind of christ on certain issues. so he may not. and some of his instructions may be contingent or situational depending on god's express will at that time.

16/6/06 10:25 PM  
Blogger beowulf said...

The word “condemn” might be used in some instances in the Scriptures to refer to a death sentence, but to associate “condemn” with “death” in all instances is to unfairly adopt a narrow definition of the word. For example, in Luke 6:37, we see the Greek word for “condemn” is “katadikazo,” which means “to give judgment against (one), to pronounce guilty.” Clearly, to condemn is to give a judgment of a guilty verdict, not to pronounce a death sentence or to determine whether the person is elect or reprobate.

And surely, in order to exercise the action of purging an adulterous man out of the community, the church must declare a guilty verdict upon the adulterous man. The church must judge the adulterous man, in other words, to condemn. So while I agree with you that purging is not the same as condemnation, but I would say purging follows condemnation.

Honestly, I do not follow or understand how your last two paragraphs contribute to your argument. What does “institutionalized church” and “legalism” has to do with anything? Condemnation, as in to give a judgment of a guilty verdict, is what the apostle Paul prescribed the church to do to a stubborn sinner who persists in his sins. Condemnation has nothing to do with making divine judgments, but is a form of church discipline. Furthermore, we cannot equate church discipline with legalism since they are obviously two different concepts.

I also cannot see why the Apostle Paul’s instructions are not normative for the church today. The words that the apostle wrote are the infallible Word of God, intended to be passed down for future generations and to all churches. Have the sin of adultery diminish from the time of the apostles to such an extent that it no longer warrant the ecclesiastical punishment prescribed in the New Testament? Or are you saying that the punishment for adultery is only applicable to the church in Corinth, but not to the other churches, say the church in Rome or in Galatia?

17/6/06 12:59 AM  
Anonymous passerby said...

I do not see christ getting riled up over a common man sins. after all, man is born in bondage to sin. his purpose is to deliver and not condemn because the sinner is already condemned. i am sure you are well verse enough to find the appropriate reference in the scripture?
so the spirit of christ is one of mercy and compassion.otherwise, with a condemnation spirit, it would be difficult for him to sit and dine with sinners would it not?
i am just affirming with osteen on this particular issue. i see there is wisdom behind being 'non confrontational' at times. solomon did say there is a time for everything. the problem is that your stand seems to be in the extreme.
common sins are not exclusively 'condemned' by the christian church.many other religions too abhor such sins.
so you are right that at some point in a person's life, the believer must show evidence of a transformed life. you can't integrate with the community of believers if you continue in sins simply because, the principle of life is such that two can't walk together unless they agree.
however, it is the bureaucracy and the non essential practices in the local churches i find burdensome to the soul. the truth of christ is suppose to set one free; not lead them into legalistic practices and peculiar dogmas depending on whose 'house' you visit!


Hag 1:9 Ye looked for much, and, lo, it came to little; and when ye brought it home, I did blow upon it. Why? saith Jehovah of hosts. Because of my house that lieth waste, while ye run every man to his OWN HOUSE.
Hag 1:10 Therefore for your sake the heavens withhold the dew, and the earth withholdeth its fruit.
Hag 1:11 And I called for a drought upon the land, and upon the mountains, and upon the grain, and upon the new wine, and upon the oil, and upon that which the ground bringeth forth, and upon men, and upon cattle, and upon all the labor of the hands.

17/6/06 11:04 AM  
Blogger beowulf said...

I do not disagree that we should display mercy and compassion, but this does not preclude us from directly condemning sinful actions within the church. The New Testament has examples of Jesus and the apostles doing so. In John 2:13-16, we read of Jesus condemning the moneychangers and merchants in the temple for turning “my Father's house into a market.” Jesus condemned the teachers of the law and the Pharisees in Matthew 23. The apostle Paul condemned the adulterous man in 1 Corinthians 5. In Galatians 2:11, the apostle Paul directly confronted Peter, “opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.”

I have written before: how can one preach the grace of God without preaching the wrath of God (Romans 1:18)? Before one can accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, one must understand his position before God. The sinner must recognize that he is under condemnation and he cannot rescue himself from the eternal punishment he rightfully deserves. For without understanding the wrath of God, the sinner would not be able to repent from his sins and receive the grace of God.

Likewise, the church must make the sinful Christian understand the seriousness of his sins before displaying mercy and compassion. For by ignoring and not condemning sins within the church, you would be subscribing to the false gospel of antinomianism, the heresy that there is no obligation to obey the moral law of God.

From the standpoint of justification, you are correct that the truth of Christ sets us free from the Law. Therefore, we do not need to earn our justification from the Law. However, salvation includes sanctification also. From the standpoint of progressive sanctification, the Law of God is our guide as we cooperate with the Holy Spirit as we become more and more Christ-like. Therefore, the Law is still necessary in the Body of Christ.

The Apostle Paul wrote, “I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-- not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.” (1 Corinthians 5:9-11)

Therefore, there is no inconsistency with what the apostle and I have written and Jesus dining with sinners. The apostle and I are not referring to dining with people of the world, but referring specifically to dining with the sinner who calls himself a brother.

17/6/06 9:15 PM  
Anonymous passerby said...

like i had said, i am just concurring with osteen when dealing with sinners. there is no condemnation because: Rom 8:1 There is therefore now NO condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. the spirit of liberation stands between the sinner and the law that condemns. but when you stepped out of christ domain, it is the law that condemns you. apart from the law, the world will condemn you; your conscience will condemn you; the devil will condemn you. so know the difference.
as vessels of the lord who have been saved by grace, we are in no capacity to condemn another sinner.Luk 6:37 And judge not, and ye shall not be judged: and condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: release, and ye shall be released:
but in the case of the lord's house, if you care to realise, there are two issues in particular that will rile him. the first which you had mentioned; mechandizing the lord's gift or introducing mammon into sacred order. secondly, hypocracy of the leadership in the house of god. these two offences are still on going in the current church order. it is a serious issue because blessing flows from the house. if the house is not set right, then the people will suffer 'famine' as a result.
so if you have the spirit of christ in you, the zeal of the lord will consume you too like it did jesus.
Joh 2:17 His disciples remembered that it was written, Zeal for thy HOUSE shall EAT me up.
if you share his spirit, you will never go up the pinnacle of man's temple and tempt the lord!
in the case of the apostle paul's approach when dealing with believers who continue in sin, well, that was his take on that issue or perhaps, a particular case or instance at that time and i hope he has the mind of christ over his decision. but it is not a 'one size fit all rule' and certainly not an additional law to the ten commandments that it is imperative we need to obey.
i have a different spirit when dealing with another brother who sin. and excommunication in my experience is not necessarily the best way to deal with someone who failed morally. it is the same when your own children fails you. do you cut yourself off them? there are merits to long sufferings. having said that, there maybe instances where you need to excommunicate someone.it is an exception and seldom a rule.
the article that you posted on osteen which i commented was entirely different from the case you cited about the apostle.
so different situations different approaches. to me, in osteen case, there is really no need to condemn. that is my spirit because, i believe there are checks and balances in place already. leave the condemnation and wrath outside of the city of god. the separation is in the realm of the spirit.this separation is real and the wrath of the almighty falls on those who walk in the night, not day.
all we need to tell you is the real deal and the arminian is probably right to say - in this case - the decision and consequences rests on the individual. if someone chooses to be a reprobate, who is to say somewhere down the road the person won't make a u-turn like the prodigal son? only god knows so i do not condemn nor do i question god's peculiar dealings with individuals even if the person happened to butcher god's people like the great apostle paul did!
the law, the world, the devil, the 'unsaved' and the conscience will condemn the sinner or wrong doer!so the job is taken. it is not a rule that day walkers go round condemning others. however, you may be like noah who pre-warn god's impending judgement or you may ' cross sword' with fallacies. if you have been prophetically inspired, the living word will back you up and others will soon come to realise. in other words, do that and sit back and watch the movies with your popcorns.
therefore, there is NO condemnation in Christ! and if you are in Christ, you condemn not because you are compelled by his spirit to liberate others from bondage.
however, christ ZEAL for his House EATS him up. know the difference!

18/6/06 10:27 AM  
Blogger beowulf said...

Once again, as I have repeatedly remind you: you have confused divine condemnation with ecclesiological condemnation. I have written before, Romans 8:1 is from the standpoint of justification and has nothing to do with church discipline, which is about the believer’s personal holiness. Let me repeat again: what I am writing about is condemnation from the viewpoint of church discipline. There are two kinds of condemnation: divine and ecclesiological. Ecclesiological condemnation has nothing to do with one’s soteriological standing before Christ. So rather, it is you who should "know the difference."

The Apostle Paul was clearly referring to ecclesiological condemnation in 1 Corinthians 5 and Galatians 1. I am astonished that you wrote “I hope [Paul] has the mind of Christ over his decision.” So what are you really implying? That when Paul wrote his epistles, his instructions might possibly be ungodly? Are you then distrusting the words of Paul and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit? Are you denying the inerrancy and infallibility of the Scriptures? If you are a liberal, then I see no point discussing with you any further since you would not trust the texts of the Scriptures and would discard any texts that you disagree with.

I am puzzled why you wrote “I have a different spirit.” Shouldn’t we be guided by the Spirit of truth who divinely inspired the Scriptures to guide us in determining our actions? Why should be you allow yourself to be led by a “different spirit?” You have absolutely no Scriptural basis to substantiate your theory that what the Apostle Paul wrote is an exception. Nowhere in the Scriptures is it written that other churches are free from the guidelines the apostle set. It is clearly obvious that this instruction is normative for all churches; otherwise you might as well say that every epistle can be discarded since it is addressed to specific churches, not to all churches.

And if you read Luke 6:37 carefully, it is referring to hypocritical judgment and hypocritical condemnation. Jesus is not telling us to abstain from all judgment and all condemnation. It is written, “The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment” (1 Corinthians 2:15). For if we do not judge, how can we identify the wolves in sheep’s clothing (Matthew 7:15)?

Honestly, what are you trying to prove by quoting John 2:17? Does Jesus having zeal for His Father’s house mean that He does not have zeal for anything else? Of course not. Jesus, by virtue of being God, is “riled” by other things as well. For it is written, “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness” (Romans 1:18). Jesus is “riled” by the “godlessness and wickedness of men.” All of us are born condemned and are “by nature objects of wrath” (Ephesians 2:3). Every sin is serious and deserves condemnation, not just the two sins you have mentioned. In any case, these examples I have previously shown prove my point that Jesus does condemns and forgives sinners.

I have quoted 1 Corinthians 5:9-11 in my previous post and I suggest you take a careful look at that passage again. When Paul “butchered God's people,” he was not part of the church yet, so the ecclesiological condemnation in 1 Corinthians 5:9-11 does not apply to him. The condemnation in Corinthians 5:9-11 only applies to “anyone who calls himself a brother.”

As for being a reprobate, this is the result of the divine election of God, not because of one’s choosing. However, this is not what it is all about. This is about ecclesiology, not soteriology. It appears that you are setting up emotional straw man after straw man. No true Calvinist will disagree that anyone can make a “U-turn.” Therefore, it is the duty of the church to condemn sins and aid the Christian sinner to make the “U-turn” as shown in 2 Corinthians 2:6-8.

19/6/06 12:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been thinking about this whole church thing. I'm a christian, but have really lost interest in church. I was raised a southern baptist, then attended a charismatic church for years. I see churches as a business, they are selling God and religion. Most have this marketing thing going on and are finding ways to sell their product.

As far a Joel Osteen is concerned I think he has found a void in peoples lives and is filling that void. I've only seen him in my channel surfing, but intend to stop and see what he has to say. For the "regular" christian they are tired of hearing sin, hell, and damnation. To me, if you are a christian you should have the desire to live godly and you shouldn't need a preacher to remind you every week. In a world filled with terrorism, rampant drugs and sex, increasing cost of living, corrupt lawmakers, negative news by the media, etc. people are looking for good news and perhaps some help in coping with their daily lives. I consider myself a very positive thinker and looking for the good in people, but it's getting harder and harder to cope with daily life. For me, I will never go back to a dull, boring, same old thing church. I haven't gone to church in over 5 years, but I love the Lord with all my heart, I know he died for me, and I know I'm going to heaven.

God's Peace To All

2/8/06 8:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Beowulf,

You really love minister-bashing and stirring up sensationalism, don't you. The article you posted on Joel Osteen is misleading. On the web, many, many people have used this article to condemn him.

However, if you were really interested in knowing the truth about that conversation or Joel Osteen's ministry, you would have done more thorough researching, and here are some things that you would find:

1. In the conversation, Larry King was asking him about salvation. Joel Osteen being a christian minister assumed it was clear that salvation was by Christ alone. He refered to it as "relationship with Jesus" later on in the conversation.

2. When he talked about the Jews and Muslims and their salvation, what he was saying was that salvation is of the heart and ONLY GOD knows whether a person has received Jesus. Just as many people attend church and call themselves Christians because of their national culture or family tradition - yet if they have never received Christ, they are not saved. Likewise, Joel Osteen was making the point that there may be Jews and Muslim who may have received Christ yet do not have the knowledge or outward form of "Christianity". Joel Osteen's point was that he was not the one to condemn others based on outward appearances, and only God sees the heart.

3. Beowulf said, "I, for one, would not hesitate to renounce Joel Osteen as a false teacher. A man who holds the position of “Senior Pastor” surely would know better than to compromise the doctrine of Solus Christus and the doctrine of sin. Because of this, I can only conclude that Joel Osteen has every intention to deceive the Christian community by preaching a false Christ. Joel Osteen clearly stands out as an example of why biblical discernment is necessary to distinguish the wolves from the sheep"

Joel Osteen was refering to himself not as the judge of others, that's why he doesn't go round calling people sinners. By the way, Beowulf, since you boast so much about your knowledge, then you will know that New Testament was written in Greek, not English, and you would know of course that "sin" is a noun, not a verb.

ALL of us were born in sin, we were conceived in sin (noun) in our mother's womb - way before we had the chance to lie, steal, cheat or commit adultery (verb) or whatever society defines as sin. God defines sin as our very root, nature, not merely our outward behaviour. Because our very being was sinful Jesus laid down His life to give us salvation and divine righteousness.

Joel Osteen was making the point that he is not man's judge, God is. I applaud him for being scriptural in regard to his humility with God and His creation.

In Dec 2006, Joel Osteen was once more interviewed by Larry King. In this conversation, King again tried to get Osteen to speak harshly and denounce sinners and prosperity teaching and so on, but Joel Osteen displayed tremendous grace under pressure and refused to make himself judge over man.

Beowulf, you are bombastic in your opinions about ministers, but the love of God, His truth and His people is not apparent in your writings at all.

7/3/07 11:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Joel is an idiot.

8/9/07 10:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How many of you have tried to feed the hungry? Have you tried to clothe the naked? Have you tried to help anyone in this world? If you are a believer, go help someone. Joel Osteen is trying to do some good.

7/10/07 11:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't Judge....what an interesting, but so deceived concept we've brought into the church. Has anyone every actually read past the first 3 verses in Matthew 7? "Give not that which is holy to DOGS"... "Cast not your pearls before SWINE? Jesus wasn't talking about animals! Have you read 1 Corinthians chapters 5 and 6?

Those who admonish anyone AGAINST righteous judgment are in effect doing exactly what they say we should not do. We have judged Osteen as guilty of heresy and of denying the faith...they have judged him as being a promoter of the faith. If we aren't to "judge" doesn't that ball roll both ways?

Have you read the letters to the churches of Revelation? How about the church at Ephesus? Weren't they commended for trying some of the lying Apostles and judging them to be false?

What you're really saying when you say "dont' judge me" is this: "Let me live in my sin however I wish to live and even if I live the most vile lifestyle, reject Jesus Christ as messiah, reject the entire bible and decide to server Satan, you Christians just keep your mouth shut" Isn't THAT what you're truly saying? Sure it is. You want to live in a lacivious lifestyle while claiming to be Christian.

One previous post asked "How many of you have tried to feed the hungry? Have you tried to clothe the naked? Have you tried to help anyone in this world?" Apparently THAT poster has judged that none of the rest of us are doing anyting...hmmm...let's see, I DO feed the hungry, I have a ministry that provides clothing, food, shelter and financial assistance to those in need. I also have a ministry that helps men who have been released from prison, homeless men, those who are breaking lifestyles of addictions and those who need a new start in life. So to answer these questions: Yes, I've done something. Guess what though? NONE of those things will get me to heaven! NONE. I do it because I have a love and compassion for those less fortunate than myself.

Joel Osteen doesn't have the guts to stand by the Word of God and proclaim (1) there is only ONE wya to heaven or (2) JESUS CHRIST is the only way. This makes him a heretic and places him in denial of the faith. It also makes him ANTI-Christ (Read 1 John 4)

Have I judged him wrongly? What does the Word of God say about it? "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?..." 1 John 2:22

5/11/07 1:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Joel Osteen is not preaching only to believers. He is also preaching worldwide to unbelievers who need to hear the truth of the gospel. God does not call us to be popular and well-liked. In fact, he said that those who want to walk in righteousness WILL be persecuted. It is so easy to try
to be everything to everyone. The hard part is speaking what goes against the flow. I did not come to know Jesus Christ by someone telling me how wonderful I am, I was convicted of my sin and brought to repentance and realized my need of the Saviour. God speaks about a lukewarm church in Revelation. Could that include preachers who have lost their love of the truth, and are busy trying to "fit in"? Since when does someone from a Pagan nation "love God?" The word of God says if we love Him we will obey His word. It also speaks of false prophets, and false doctrines, and that there will be MANY in the last days. We, as true born-again children of God, must be willing to share the truth, even at the risk of being unpopular. True agape love will do whatever needs to be done to rescue souls from an eternal hell. To fear man is a snare, but to fear God is the beginning of wisdom. To any unbeliever reading this, please read John 3:3. And please don't think that being a Christian is a hard thing. I would not go back to my B.C. days (before Christ) for anything in the world. He is the light of my life and He can be yours also if you will ask Him.

21/8/08 9:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Joel Osteen is the best! I got saved thru his teachings! Now i am with Jesus! and i have changed all my bad ways! Glory to Jesus! Let no human be a judge!

7/4/11 10:43 PM  
Anonymous muebles madrid said...

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19/1/12 6:01 PM  

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