Friday, August 12, 2005

The Doctrinal Heresy of Healing through the Holy Communion

This is a theological rebuttal to the article "Health And Wholeness Through The Holy Communion" by Joseph Prince, pastor of New Creation Church, Singapore. The article can be found in the August 2004 issue of Solid Rock, a publication of New Creation Church, or viewed at the website www.newcreation.org.sg. Another blogger, Elaine Loh, has provided a more detailed theological rebuttal that can be found over here.

In this article, Joseph Prince tries to show his readers that the Holy Communion has the ability to grant divine health to its partakers. Prince wrote in the article:
As long as we are here on earth, our bodies are subject to the ageing process, which is part of the divine sentence. All our bodies are decaying every day. Our brain cells are dying daily.

The Holy Communion is God’s solution for us to stop the decay. And even your friends will see the results. They will begin to ask you, “Hey, why do you seem to look younger and younger? You never seem to age!”

One day, when we get to heaven, we will have brand new bodies that never grow old, never tire and never look bad. Meanwhile, the Lord’s Supper is how God helps us offset this process of ageing and walk in divine health. Every time you partake, you are reversing the effects of the curse or divine judgement in your body…
Throughout the entire article, Prince mainly used 1 Corinthians 11:20-22,27-30 as his main Biblical reference. As I read and reread through the entire article a couple of times, I have discovered to my astonishment that Prince absolutely failed to highlight 1 Corinthians 11:23-26, which explains the real purpose of the Holy Communion:
For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
When the Apostle Paul wrote this Scriptural passage, he was making reference to the event at Luke 22:19, where it states: “And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

The big question to Prince is, if the Holy Communion is intended to provide divine healing, Jesus would have said, “do this to heal your bodies” or “do this in remembrance and it will heal your bodies also.” These alternative phrasings would definitely prove that there is healing in the Holy Communion. Though at the beginning of the article, Prince made clear that he would refer to 1 Corinthians 11, he probably knew that the verses 23-26 will not cast his unscriptural doctrine in a favorable light. Thus he chose to skip these verses entirely altogether.

Even without verses 23-26, Prince has failed to establish a direct relation between healing and the Holy Communion. Prince wrote,
What is it to partake unworthily? Read the rest of verse 29 and you will conclude that if you fail to discern or understand the significance of the Lord’s body, you are eating and drinking in an unworthy manner.

The Corinthians partook unworthily because they did not recognise that the broken body of the Lord was meant to bring them health and wholeness.

And by treating the Holy Communion as a ritual, they missed out on the blessings. They did not understand the significance of the bread. They did not know why they were partaking. This is what it means to partake unworthily.

The manner in which we partake will determine whether we experience the benefits of the Lord’s body. If our attitude is “it’s just a piece of bread”, then that is what it will be. And we will have robbed ourselves of the life-giving effects of the bread at His Table.
The full text of verse 29 is “For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.” Prince is implying that the Corinthians failed to recognize the “life-giving effects,” which he took to be “healing, health and wholeness.” However, there is a difference between the phrase “recognizing the body” and “recognizing the benefits of the body.” The former is trying to caution the Christians not to treat the Holy Communion like an ordinary meal by looking towards the atonement of Jesus Christ, while the latter is stressing on the blessings of the atonement.

Was the Apostle Paul concerned that the Corinthians were not recognizing the blessings? It seems not. At verses 20-22, the Apostle Paul stated the problem the Corinthians had with the Holy Communion; that they were treating it like an ordinary meal.
When you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat, for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. Don't you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!
The Corinthians were partaking the Holy Communion in a disorderly manner, with some getting drunk while others getting hungry. It is clear that the problem was behavioral. It has nothing to do with recognizing the blessings of the atonement. If the Corinthians had been partaking in an orderly manner, then perhaps Prince’s interpretation might have made more sense.

Prince wrote,
So, it follows that he was telling the Corinthians that they should examine themselves to see if they were eating and drinking in a worthy manner. Nowhere does it say that he told them to examine themselves to see if there was sin intheir lives.
I am in agreement with Prince that verse 28 does not state we should examine ourselves for sin. This verse is referring to the atonement of Jesus Christ and our need for a Savior. But I strongly disagree with Prince that Christ’s body was “broken so that our bodies can be made well.” So far, he has not explicitly proven the Scriptural passage indicates that the Holy Communion brings about physical healing.

Prince wrote,
Before you partake, just know that God wants you to “prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers” (3 John 1:2)
The verse 3 John 1:2 is taken out of context. It states: “Dear friend, I pray that you may prosper in every way and be in good health, just as your soul prospers.” The “I” in this verse is the Apostle John, not God. Therefore, it is referring to John’s will, not God’s will. Furthermore, the phrase “I pray that you may prosper” indicates that the Apostle John desires his friend prospers, not actually stating for a fact that his friend will definitely prosper. Otherwise, John would have wrote something like these words: “I know that you will prosper.”

Prince ended the article with the following words,
See the Lord carrying all your sins and diseases. He took your sins in His body on the cross. See Him taking on His body your physical conditions. If you have a tumour, see the tumour on His body. Whatever disease you might have, see it on His body. It is no longer on you. See His health come on you… Hold the bread in your hand and say this:

Thank You Jesus for Your broken body. It is for my healing, my spouse’s healing and my children’s healing. Thank You that by Your stripes, by the beatings You bore, by the lashes which fell on Your back, we are completely healed. I believe and I receive. (Take the bread.)

Next, take the cup in your hand and say this: Thank You Jesus for the new covenant cut in Your blood. Your blood has brought me forgiveness and washed me from every sin. I thank You that Your blood has made me righteous. And as I drink, I celebrate and partake of the inheritance of the righteous, which is preservation, healing, wholeness and prosperity. (Drink the wine.)
In the above quote, Prince misinterpreted Isaiah 53:5, which he has taken out of context. This verse also partially reappeared in 1 Peter 2:24. The phrases “transgressions,” “iniquities” and “bore our sins” all shows that the healing is spiritual, not physical.

I would also like to state that this act of visualization takes the sovereign will of God out of the healing process. It mocks God by saying healing is dependant on the Holy Communion, not on His sovereign will to heal at any time He pleases. This doctrine falsely teaches that our visualizations and rituals are the main factors for the physical healing process.

This unscriptural teaching is not too unlike the Roman Catholic doctrine of baptismal regeneration, where water baptism plays a major role in the forgiveness of sins. The false gospel teaches that without water baptism, one cannot be saved. What it fails to consider is that salvation is totally the work of God, not of man-driven rituals. Likewise, the doctrine of healing through the Holy Communion takes away the full glory of healing from God by making Him dependant on rituals. The truth of the matter is, as God can save at any time He pleases, He could also heal at any time He pleases. God does not need man-driven rituals to aid Him in carrying out His will.

371 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

wow.. thats News.. i suppose i'd never wanna go New Creation again.. haha..

14/8/05 5:27 PM  
Blogger Kashiva said...

Pastor Prince? I remember vaguely he left my church because he believed many things we didn't. Like this... Healing through Holy Communion... He set up New Creation Church for that. Geez.

14/8/05 7:33 PM  
Blogger Daniel Ho said...

Very informative. Thanks for the article.

15/8/05 11:14 AM  
Blogger :)X said...

Where did he get that revelation from?

15/8/05 11:33 AM  
Blogger cybeRanger said...

Why do we need to proclaim the Lord's death until He comes?

17/8/05 10:42 AM  
Blogger beowulf said...

I have already provided the answer in my article.

"For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, 'This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.' In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.'" (1 Corinthians 11:23-25)

However, I will elaborate a little further.

Why did the Israelites celebrate the Passover? It is to remember the day God passed over the people of Israel when He saw the blood of the lambs on the doorposts.

"When you enter the land that the LORD will give you as he promised, observe this ceremony. And when your children ask you, 'What does this ceremony mean to you?' then tell them, 'It is the Passover sacrifice to the LORD , who passed over the houses of the Israelites in Egypt and spared our homes when he struck down the Egyptians.' Then the people bowed down and worshiped." (Exodus 12:25-27)

Why do we Christians not celebrate the Passover today? The answer is because Jesus Christ became our Passover Lamb. The Old Testament ritual of the Passover is abolished with the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ.

"Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast--as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed." (1 Corinthians 5:7)

Therefore, the Holy Communion becomes the replacement for the Passover upon Christ's death on the cross. It is celebrated to remember the day the blood of Christ redeemed us from God's judgement of sin.

"For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect." (1 Peter 1:18-19)

17/8/05 7:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How do u explains the miracles healing testimonies that had taken place in some pple's lives after they took the holy commuion by faith? I tink u should stop analyzing coz u will never find the answer becoz U r not God! No human can understand the things of God including u! By judging people's church u r actually going against His Church.

3/2/06 1:42 PM  
Blogger beowulf said...

If you are taught by your church leaders to “stop analyzing” (read: stop studying the Bible), then it appears there is something very wrong with the teachings of your church. The Scriptures clearly tells us to “watch your life and doctrine closely” (1 Timothy 4:16). We are to “test everything. Hold on to the good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

I am sure many religions other than Christianity have accounts of miracles too. But surely you are not going to vouch for the soundness of their doctrinal teachings based on their miracles? What should we as Christians do then? We should emulate the example of the Bereans who examined the Scriptures to test the teachings of the Apostle Paul. It is written:

“Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” (Acts 17:11)

You might also want to take these two biblical warnings into account:

“For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible.” (Matthew 24:24)

“Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1 John 4:1)

Hence, let us not be deceived by signs and miracles, but turn to the Word of God.

7/2/06 4:26 AM  
Anonymous Shannon said...

I agree with this article. As for Joseph Prince. Let me say here that I was from New Creation. My whole family left this church because not only does Joseph Prince not practice what he preaches, this man's character questionable.

Joseph Prince used to tell the church, to check whatever he's preaching against the Word. Well he does not want anyone to do that. My brother did exactly that, he force my brother and his girlfriend to step down from the choir and backup singer, reason being insuborination.

And if you were to really read and check his preachings, normelly he'll ignore the Holy Spirit as if He does not exist.

I also do not blame him. His church has made him into "a golden calf" without him realising it. He has forgotten that the humble is what our Lord wants. The most important of all commandments is to love, what love is there in New Creation. When each time, someone in trouble goes to them and they say "this is not the church's policy." Are we suppose to do this?

James 2:15-16 "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, bewarmed and filled" but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?"

Finally let me end it here with this.

Hebrew 8:11
"None of them shall teach his neighbour, and none his brother, saying "know the Lord" for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them"

Now why was this written? Holy Spirit who dwells within us will reveal all truth. He will teach us all things. I pray that Joseph Prince will stop ignoring Holy Spirit. Don't grieve Him, He's all I've got.

22/3/06 12:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

wow.. pastor prince made me believe more in God more. thanks for this post. without this i would not know that God do want us to prosper and be in health. i thank God for Pastor Prince, thanks blogger.

28/4/06 2:35 PM  
Blogger vincent said...

it is strange that when a person was healed in a temple..all the temple worshipers will be there..saying 'this god is powerfuil'... but when a christian was healed during Holy communion..we say 'its of the devil'..

Let me ask you wooQ ... can you stand up there on the pulpit and preach like Joseph Prince? Can you do miracles ?Have you ever won someone to the Lord ?

Then you have no right to say NCC is heresy.. unless you are of the same calibre... just by reading your article help me realise that to you christianity is just a religion..not a relationship.

And reading about your 'Statment of Faith'.. what can i say ? Thats what you believe..that God only 'choose'a few or elect 'shall be saved'..and most of the verse is quote out of context?And the rest 'condemm' to hell.. what a thelogy... your the one thats in Heresy ...

Let me quote what you said.. 'Holy Communion becomes the replacement for the Passover upon Christ's death on the cross. It is celebrated to remember the day the blood of Christ redeemed us from God's judgement of sin.'

Looks like you have omitted what Jesus said in the gospel 'this is MY BODY which is broken for U '

We all agree that blood of Christ redeemed us from God's judgement of sin.

Can you eloborate what 'this is my Body which is broken for you' ?

Well of course if you're from a denomination that dosent believe God's will for you to be healed and stay healthy..what more can i say?

10/5/06 9:11 PM  
Blogger beowulf said...

Vincent,

The phrase “this is my Body which is broken for you,” refers to the body of Christ that was crucified on the cross. The body of the Old Testament sacrificial lamb is a type of the body of Christ, foreshadowing the atonement of Christ in the New Testament. As I have explained before, Christ becomes our Passover Lamb that was slain, who fulfilled and abolished the Old Testament ritual of the Passover. So when we partake in the Lord’s Supper, we remember that Christ's body was sacrificed on Calvary and His blood poured out for us.

On the doctrine of election and reprobation, I strongly suggest you devote some time to study the Scriptures instead of condemning my beliefs without citing a single biblical reference. You might want to have a look at the history of Christianity, particularly at the Reformation period and after, where you would find that my theology of predestination is definitely conforming to orthodox and classical Protestant teachings, which is based solely on the Word of God.

At the same time, you might also want to understand the definition of heresy, which may be defined as a theological or religious opinion or doctrine maintained in opposition, or held to be contrary, to the orthodox teachings of the Christian Church. In this case, we would be referring to classical Protestant teachings. I would challenge you to identify any instance in the history of Christianity where the heresy of “health and wholeness through the Holy Communion” is treated by the Christian Church as orthodox and taught in Bible colleges and seminaries.

11/5/06 9:21 AM  
Blogger Lewel said...

During the time when the apostle John was old. The trouble in the church was the invasion of Gnostics, people who did not believe the deity of Christ and the denial of the existence of sin. This is still the problem today.

There is no enemy within the body of Christ. We are all accountable to Him in that day and who are we to judge?

Do you really know what Jesus has done for you?

1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
1Co 11:29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
1Co 11:30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.

Isa 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.

As the children of Israel behold the bronze serpent and was healed, so shall those to turn their eyes to Jesus.

If you have been healed through the Holy Communion or simple seeing Jesus as your healer, give all glory to God.
If you haven't experience it, one day you might need it. At that time do not turn away but what ever way that will help you see Jesus as Your healer, use it. God is a sovereign God.

24/5/06 10:06 PM  
Blogger beowulf said...

It is interesting that Lew has to resort to empty and redundant rhetoric, especially when I have previously addressed the verses that he has brought up. This reminds me of the saying, “If you tell a lie often enough, people will believe it.” I must admit it’s quite tiring to repeat the same Scriptural proofs over and over again to critics who only seem to be displaying the attitude of putting their fingers in their ears and saying “LALALA… I CAN’T HEAR YOU!”

I do find it worrying that many such Christians embrace a spirit of anti-intellectualism – it is okay not to study the Scriptures properly or not to study at all. And they are proud of this behavior for some unknown reason. Scripture is haphazardly taken out of context and whatever the guy in the slick suit says from the pulpit must be true because… well… it is true.

This observation, not only by me but by many others, clearly shows the spirit of discernment is lacking among these people who are indifferent towards biblical truths. False teachings are not only tolerated but even accepted i.e. Lew’s words: “There is no enemy within the body of Christ.” Obviously, he confuses the visible Church with the invisible Church. Lew can quote from 1 Corinthians about the Holy Communion and tell Christians off for judging but yet totally ignore the verse from the very same epistle that commands us to judge:

“What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."” – 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

One can only wonder whether the verses that Lew quoted are obtained through serious biblical study or simply accepted unreservedly from his leaders. I would leave it to the readers to judge. And of course, Lew can’t judge since he himself wrote, “Who are we to judge?” =)

24/5/06 11:52 PM  
Blogger Lewel said...

You can continue blogging while I continue experiencing my Christ. Being delivered from 5 to 6 motorcycles accidents, delivered from smoking and alcoholism. From someone who left school with only “N” levels. Joined the Navy for 7 years and left with the employment nothing. Jesus restored my life back to me. All I know is Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. He eats and drinks with people who have nothing to boast about everything to be ashamed of. Pharisees will watch at the side criticising Him and those He eats with. Guess the Pharisees are still around today.

Though I may not have qualifications like you do but when I read the bible, I always see a good God who loves me despite of my flaws. I was a wretched man transform by His amazing grace.

All you brothers and sisters in Christ out there who are reading this blog: The word of God is to be experienced and not a tool to create divisions. We may be different in views but we are of one Lord and one Spirit and one Father.

Eph 4:1-6
I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, 2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, 3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Shalom brother, shalom.

Lew

25/5/06 4:07 AM  
Anonymous See Bay Song said...

"I must admit it’s quite tiring to repeat the same Scriptural proofs over and over again to critics who only seem to be displaying the attitude of putting their fingers in their ears and saying “LALALA… I CAN’T HEAR YOU!”"

I find the above statement so ironic. Isn't that a sign of what you're doing too?

Bloody Christian geek with too much time on his hand...

25/5/06 12:41 PM  
Blogger beowulf said...

Lew,

You are clearly attacking a straw man that you put up that have nothing to do with what I wrote. I do not deny that God saves hardened sinners by His grace alone. On the doctrine of grace alone, I absolutely agree with your statement “God who loves me despite of my flaws.”

However, these character flaws are not to be confused with doctrinal flaws. Anyone who carefully study the Scriptures would find many instances where we are exhorted to rebuke doctrinal flaws e.g. Galatians 1:6-9, 1 Timothy 6:3-5, 2 Timothy 4:2, Titus 1:9, Titus 1:10-14. Galatians 2:11-21 clearly shows the apostle Paul opposing Peter who caused others “not to be acting in line with the truth of the gospel” (Galatians 2:14).

When Jesus prayed for unity for all believers in John 17, it is important to note that this unity must be based on truth. In His prayer, Jesus said, “Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth” (John 17:17). And as we all know, the gospel of Jesus Christ is based upon how we interpret the Word of God. If you interpret improperly, you may be guilty of preaching a false gospel.

Where the doctrine of salvation is concerned, what could be more important? Or are you perhaps suggesting that we ignore doctrinal truths and simply acknowledge Roman Catholics, Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses as brothers and sisters in Christ?

Therefore, it is quite obvious and in line with the Word of God that it is much better to be divided by TRUTH than to be united by ERROR.

25/5/06 7:30 PM  
Blogger beowulf said...

See Bay Song,

I do strongly suggest you back up your accusation with facts. It appears that many of my critics simply regurgitate the standard out-of-context verses without directly addressing my answers and responses. As for me, I would try to directly refute the points that my critics raised. So it appears that your accusation is without any merit at all.

By suggesting I have too much time on my hands, you are insinuating that the study of the Scriptures is not important at all. Surely all Christians would agree that studying the Word of God is extremely important. As the Psalmist wrote, “How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to your word” (Psalm 119:9)

And of course, through the study of the Scriptures, we are able to “encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it” (Titus 1:9). Perhaps you might want to take the Scriptures a little more seriously rather than adopting such a cavalier attitude. I do not mind if you insult me, but take care not to insult the Word of God that instructs us to “correctly handles the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15).

25/5/06 7:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Europe,

Just want to say that I thank God for the day I was introduced to the sermons of Joseph Prince.

Maybe he makes mistakes, is not perfect, etc. But I learned a lot about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I have grown in the Lord! The classical Protestants teachings was not able to help me, because it is also an (European influenced) interpretation of the teachings.

I hope to visit Singaporre and NCC, God bless you!

19/7/06 1:49 AM  
Blogger Tertullianus said...

I have nothing against the people at NCC but a concern over the indoctrination they are receiving which are deviant and in the guise of spiritual benefits. The demonstration of powers does not validate a false teaching.

Miracles can happen in any religion of the world and they too share the same zealous adherents. In Romans 10:2 the Apostle Paul cited the Jews to be zealous for their religion but lacking in knowledge. In Matthew 12:39, Jesus refused to provide them a sign in order to prove his Messianic claim. This is to refute that not at all times signs and wonders are proof that the Lord will validate his truth by that means. The Word of God is more than sufficient to bear witness in itself. Paul admonished Timothy to watch his life and doctrine carefully so that he may save both himself and the hearers (1Tim 4:16). And further he warned that in the last days people will gather around themselves teachers who will teach what their itching ears would like to hear only (2Tim 4:3). On this premise let us establish that all leaders and teachers should be subject to the Word of God and by no means should claim immunity or infallibility for this has plagued the Body of Christ for centuries. A little yeast into the dough can work into the whole dough. Truth sprinkled with specks of un-truth is still falsehood.

Those who are obviously NCC supporters may post valiant defense for the works of NCC. But put your energy rather to the defense of our Lord when his truth is being compromised. You can be so sincere in believing and also be sincerely wrong. Prosperity maybe a benefit of salvation, but that is not the end of it. The over pursuit of health and wealth theology so prevalent in NCC has made sincere Christians to miss the overall purpose of God and that is to redeem lost humanity through his Son. Hence a simple truth such as a communion can turn into a pre-occupation of health doctrines. There is too much concern for self benefit as a measure of salvation rather than faith that overcomes the world. See Hebrews 11.

There is work to do and one of that is to bring down every pretension that pose itself as one from God and expose these errors before they shipwreck sincere faith of many. Leaders who are not subject to reproof are simply overlords in the guise of shepherds. I have seen greater servants of God who are completely submitted to reproof because after all they are just servants of the Master. The formation of large cultic groups always has this element of leader infallibility. Please be careful to accolade such honor to a mere man for it may destroy him. The tree is known by its fruit. The prosperity gospel cannot stand under the true test when it will witness real Christianity in Africa or China. The comfort of 21st century 1st world society have forgotten the roots of Christianity in persecutions, poverty and harassments, all of which are familiar to Apostle Paul and he welcomed it for he said to live is Christ and to die is gain. Now there’s the true measure of treasure, which is in heaven.

About communion partaking that is taken for medicinal purpose, this is an aberrant interpretation of an obvious passage. Whether a little error as simple as this can harm the faithful, the answer is yes. For the focus now shifts from the remembrance of the Lord’s work on Calvary to man-centered concerns which can lead to selfishness. We recently have 2 of our good members who left our church and move into NCC. It was a sad thing because they were leaders of our youth team. They have been teaching that a Christian does not need to ask for forgiveness anymore because they are made righteous! That is a serious error and for that they were rebuked. We realized that they have secretly been attending NCC. Why such divisive teachings crept into the Body of Christ? With a few other strange teachings they kept they were soon exposed. For that they left in haste and would not want to associate with us anymore. These are manners that are not becoming of a brother in Christ. The Lord said, who is not with you is against you. These behaviors of members bear trademarks of cultic activities. To NCC members, it is time to subject every teaching to reproof of the Word of God. If it does not stand under the light of truth, cast it away. Paul says in Romans 12:9, abhor what is evil, cling to what is good

20/7/06 12:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thank God that He has exposed me to Pastor Prince teachings and sermons. So much revelation this man of God has. May God continues to use Pastor Prince to reveal more and more.

31/7/06 2:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One thing I know.
Once upon a time, I was taught by a traditional church to obey God.

I tried, and when I thought I did the right thing, I felt closer to God and when I fell in to sin, I felt guilty and it made me think I was far away from God.

But after I joined NCC, the preaching of Jesus made me fall in love with Him. He was no more a standard for me to follow, but a Saviour friend.

Now I don't think about obeying God. I just know He loves me and I rest in His love.

25/9/06 7:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have read Prince writing on the Holy Communion ordinance - making light of the Blood and the Body of our Lord for healing without any support of God's Word. Deception of Satan in errorneous doctrine will be discovered in due time. Beware, be careful, and believe not damnable heresies! Those who wrote so confidently against this warning: Take Heed,lest you be the next to be disappointed with Joseph Prince of NCC.

26/9/06 7:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ANONYMOUS WROTE:
"But after I joined NCC, the preaching of Jesus made me fall in love with Him. He was no more a standard for me to follow, but a Saviour friend."

Yes, you are the third person who made this statement from NCC. Thus, confirmed the teaching of Joseph Prince - "He(Jesus Christ) was no more a standard for me to follow, but a Saviour Friend."
You want a Saviour to secure eternity without the change of heart to follow Him? You sounded like wanting the better of the two worlds, my friend.

26/9/06 7:51 AM  
Blogger Phil Dawe said...

Interesting blog indeed, we must be very careful to not be deceived. It is our eternal souls at stake. Let us be very watchful and on our guard. As for me, i will be spending extra time in the word.

P.s i liked the quote "Therefore, it is quite obvious and in line with the Word of God that it is much better to be divided by TRUTH than to be united by ERROR."

It reminds me of Matthew 10:34-36 "Do not suppose that i have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For i have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law - a man's enimies will be the members of his own houshold'"

God Bless.

5/10/06 10:20 PM  
Blogger Agape said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

18/10/06 10:47 PM  
Blogger Agape said...

Hi,

Thanks Beowulf for the sharing.

Praise the Lord ! that Lew has found a friend in Jesus ... indeed, what a friend we have in Jesus! =)

There are two ways we can view Beowulf's sharing:

a) He is showing off his theological knowledge, being judgmental and trying to divide the church

b) he shares his conviction of the truths in love, seeking to caution/enlighten his bro and sis ... especially so, when something 'questionable' is taught by some who yields considerable influence as the principal pastor of a large church, charismatic, gifted speaker and persuasive...

I believe Beowulf shared out of (b) and in my view, Beowulf’s understanding and use of scriptures are sound and worthy to take note of.

If there is anything to be gained from this thread of comments .. it is this ..

we must seek to study and understand the Word properly for ourselves ... if find it difficult... attend bible classes taught by teachers who are gifted in the study and teaching of the bible e.g BSF ... not forgetting too that we have the Holy Spirit to help us (Jn 14:26)

Bro' Lew, truly happy for your wonderful relationship with Jesus... you must seek to grow in His Word as well =) ...

" Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk , so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good" 1 Peter 2:2-3

Cheers and God Bless

Agape
Steven

18/10/06 11:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the first place why do you obey God? What's your motive?

It is the grace of God that leads people to repentence. The doctrine of "you must follow God" makes people obedient in the sight of man but God sees your heart. If you are obeying God outwardly, but you have a desire to sin, God sees that inspite of your actions.

Anyone who exalts their obedience for God above the blood of Jesus is not appreciative of Jesus.

I'm not trying to enjoy sin and Jesus at the same time. I hate to hurt myself (when you sin you hurt yourself).What I'm saying is that Jesus is not another set of Laws for us to keep. He is our Lover. When you love someone, you fulfill the Law.

I'm not perfect, but more I see Jesus's goodeness, more I fall in love with Him. I end up loving Him.

One thing I know. If Pastor Prince is a false prophet, his ministry will not last long, and God will not protect him. One public sin is enough to collapse a church. You don't have to worry. Time will tell.

20/10/06 4:18 AM  
Blogger Agape said...

Hi Anonymous,

Allow me to respond and share with you my understanding …

a) Yes, God sees our inward heart and not outward obedience =) … that’s evident from the gospels and … that’s where the Pharisees and many of us gets into great trouble =( …

b) Jesus has inextricably linked loving Him and obedience …

"If you love me, you will obey what I command.” John 14:15
(see also Lk 6:48-49)

ie. If I say I love Jesus, then I seek to obey what He says … and if I seek to obey Him … I demonstrate my love for Him and vice versa…

c) I also agree with you that “Jesus is not another set of Laws for us to keep” … that is very evident in the book of Romans and Galatians where Paul expounded in great length on the matter …

d) you've shared:“He is our Lover. When you love someone, you fulfill the Law.”

My understanding on this matter is :

“ I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" Gal 2:21

Read also Romans Chapters 6, 7 and 8.

Ie.

Law is powerless to help us be righteous … because we are inherently sinful … but by Grace through Jesus Christ … because Christ has overcome at the cross …so, we can overcome sin … has the capacity to obey … and be righteous …

Law just served a purpose to show us what is sinful … but cannot help us to overcome sin… only by the grace of what Jesus has done at the cross …can we do so…

e)you've shared: “Anyone who exalts their obedience for God above the blood of Jesus is not appreciative of Jesus.”

I think the connection is like this:
- the blood of Jesus is the atoning grace of Jesus
- which enables us to obey Him from our hearts and to be righteous and
- by this obedience we demonstrate that we love Him

To me… Jesus, is not my 'Lover' … but my Saviour, my Lord and my God! … I love Him for He love us so much as to die on the cross for our sins …

Thank You ! Jesus ... we love You

Cheers and God Bless
Steven

21/10/06 10:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey people...can't beleive that some of you are implying that Joseph Prince is not of God!!! WOW just come back from church-London Hillsong and he was speaking-loads of people got saved and met with Jesus!! now wouldn't that be an odd thing for Satan to do-assist in salvations???
Luv ya xx

23/10/06 2:29 AM  
Anonymous Pearl said...

Dear all,
Can you please go and attend the NCC at least for a month and check out all the bibile scriptures that Ps Prince quotes?

I will gladly read all your rebuttals for his teachings for every sermon. I will also like to know in which of his sermons did he exalt himself and not Jesus.

I am perplexed. There seems to be a prevalent perception among the commentors (non-ncc members) here that NCC-goers are not reading the Living WORD of God. Do you suppose that the average NCC-goers are taking ncc leaders' words blindly as gospel truth?

If you are willing, go and attend ncc for at least a month including their bible studies.

28/10/06 1:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You all speak very "chim" ah.. One thing I know after attending NCC, I was blind and now I see - see Grace which is my Jesus and Jesus is always glorified in every service. May we all increase in the revelation of Jesus Christ.. [v]

30/10/06 8:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear All

I really think that miracle divine healing has its place in today christianity.But cannot really confirm whether Holy Communion does minister divine healing

Let's put it this way,if beowulf thinks that holy communion cannot provide divine healing,then don't believe in it.No problem with those who choose to believe that holy communion does minister healing.

Since every true believer does have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them,then let Holy Spirit do the leading?Why argue until the faces turn blue/green /black?

1/11/06 11:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear All

God has no time to waste on theology..haha.Looks like majority of people whom Jesus preached to had no theological background.Human lives need to be saved spiritually and physically.He works according to each person faith.God also gives revelations to believers also.

Maybe Jesus does not want to give the relevation of divine healing thru Holy Communion to beowulf as what he has given to Prince,for fear that beowulf might try to "theologize" it and by then many time could have been wasted and many lives have "gone to be the Lord"

1/11/06 11:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear All

I think the topic we are discussing is controversial.

In Jesus's time,his works include plenty of healing sessions.I believe that our Lord is still interested to heal His children and bless them with divine healing.

The only controversy is whether Holy Communion is being used by the Lord as a tool to minister divine healing.Well I suggest those who are interested in receiving divine healing may actually follow Prince's teaching.Those who have doubt,don't try it.

After all there is nothing to lose,if any believers who got healed by taking Holy Communion,give praise to God!Amen

2/11/06 8:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What do you think ,HT TAN?Please give comments

2/11/06 8:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear All

The world basically offer no hope to people.The world is full of poverty,curses and hatred etc..

So if any preachers can preach a sense of hope and better future for believers who are still living in this wretched world,why not?

If all the bible promises can only be materialized in heaven,then I believe that christians on earth are all wretched beings saved by the grace of God.

No wonder there are christains cursing and swearing on their way to heaven

Ah Fit

2/11/06 8:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i agree with ah fit holy communion does healing .god love us he want us to be heal .

2/11/06 8:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

here by i want to give thank to pastor prince because of his book of holy communion i was heal.

2/11/06 9:06 AM  
Blogger Redsurrection said...

you should never allow anonymous posting..

for those who say negative things without first checking and investigating.. I say God bless you..

For those who does not believe in the blessing of God, healing, miracles because of the church background you come from, may all your blessing come on me.

For those who did not want to come to NCC because of some rumours, thank you, please dont come, we have to sit on the floor on Sunday already without you coming.

10/11/06 1:44 AM  
Anonymous john lim said...

Let's hear what others say of Pastor Prince too. He has been endorsed by Hillsongs and invited to speak there. That should mean something.

11/11/06 2:27 PM  
Anonymous Jessie said...

i am not a theologian, and i don't profess to know the Bible as much as beowulf. what i do know is that Christianity is a relationship with our Father God and our Saviour Jesus. different churches may emphasise different things but ultimately, the fruits of the teachings will show themselves in the believer's life.

i've heard many many criticisms against Ps Joseph Prince. i don't intend to defend him, and he certainly doesn't need me to defend him, i believe God is his vindication. i can tell you that in his sermons, the message that never fails to come across is the love of the Father for us, the loveliness of Jesus Christ, and the completeness of His work on the cross. in whatever subject that he is teaching, he brings it all back to the cross. even when he taught on the holy communion, he always emphasised that we are not doing it to get healed. but to remind ourselves of what Christ has done, that He has purchased divine healing for us on the cross.

we can go on and argue about what belongs to a believer through Jesus' death on the cross. but ultimately it's between us and God. some of us believe that we have a right to divine health and wholeness. some of us don't. when we who believe receive, we give all glory to Jesus. He is glorified mightily in our lives. for those who don't believe in divine healing, they will not seek healing and thus remain sick. at times there may be some who try to convince us that divine healing does not exist. question is, which glories the God, to see His children healed and healthy, or to see them sick? whatever it is, we don't have to defend our opinion of how good we believe God is. if we dare to believe that He is that good, His goodness will surely be evident in our lives!

during Jesus' time on earth, the Pharisees who were so knowledgeable in the Bible, did not even realise that the Messiah was right in front of their eyes. so it is possible to know so much, yet don't see the Grace of God when He is looking at them in the face.

i believe i can say for the many who are mature and have sat under Ps Prince's teachings for some time that his teachings not only caused us to be so in love with Jesus, but also so grateful to Him for His sacrifice. we are bold to proclaim His Lordship in our lives, and we know that God is our loving Father who desires all good things for us. Like Jesus said, if our earthly fathers know how to give good things to their children, how much more our heavenly Father?

for those of us blessed to be in NCC, let's be gracious and not react in anger when others voice their beliefs which contradicts what we know, for we know the fruits - righteousness, peace and joy - that we have in us. our lives are a testimony to His goodness. Amen?

for those of you who are wondering about Ps Prince's teachings, whether they are really heresies, why not listen to his sermons for a while and judge for yourself, rather than let others make the judgment for you?

Grace and peace be multiplied to you all, as you grow in the knowledge of God the Father and of Jesus Christ our Lord!

Shalom!

11/11/06 5:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi beowulf, thanks for the posting, it really opens up my eyes to how Man can choose to contort whatever that God give as good and make it look so sinister merely due to ignorance of the complete Word of God. Rather than posting a “theological rebuttal” to your “theological rebuttal ” of Health and wholeness through the Holy Communion, I hope to give u an aspect of the Word of God that perhaps u may have overlooked in your zealousness as the Word of God says, it is not good to have zeal without kmnowledge.

I think 1st of all, I need to remind u once again of what is biblical meaning of salvation. Traditionally, we think that salvation mesn escape from hell but in actual fact Salvation in greek comes from the word Souzo which means to save a person holistically i.e in his spirit, soul and body and all that pertain to his well being including his mental sanity, finances, social life, health, marital bliss etc. Thus when a person received health and healing, he is receiving nothing more than a mere part of the bigger ‘package’ of salvation which Jesus died for him on the cross. Jesus the Son of God is an overpayment for our sins! If i amy put it this way: there is so much ‘leftover’ and hence we have our physical healing, financial blessing, mental peace , marital bliss etc that come from the salvation that Christ provides.That will be our starting point.

Now w.r.t to the points ur raised,

1. beowulf said --> “The big question to Prince is, if the Holy Communion is intended to provide divine healing, Jesus would have said, “do this to heal your bodies” or “do this in remembrance and it will heal your bodies also.” These alternative phrasings would definitely prove that there is healing in the Holy Communion. Though at the beginning of the article, Prince made clear that he would refer to 1 Corinthians 11, he probably knew that the verses 23-26 will not cast his unscriptural doctrine in a favorable light. Thus he chose to skip these verses entirely altogether.Even without verses 23-26, Prince has failed to establish a direct relation between healing and the Holy Communion”

My answer:
1cor 11:23-26 says :
For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat;[b] this is My body which is broken[c] for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.

I will now show u why remembering Jesus is directly linked to healing. The answer is found in Jesus’ answer in John 3:14-15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

When the children of Israel wonder in the wilderness for 40 yrs, they were bitten by venomous snakes and were greatly afflicted and God give Moses the idea to lift the bronze image of the serpent up on a stick and ask all who were afflicted to look at it to be healed(Read Numbers 21) U see Beowulf, Jesus quoted this example of physical healing to demonstrate what it is to be saved and what is the quality of Eternal life. Jesus himself became sin for us on the cross as symbolize by the bronze serpent so that the benefits of not just spiritual healing but not physical healing will come on us. 2 Corinthians 5:21 21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.Divine exchange happens on the cross. Our sin imputed on Jesus body and his righteousness imputed on us and hence all the legitimate blessings whether in health or finance that comes with that imputed righteousness. And that’s what grace means- unmerited favour of God. When a person accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour, God’s unmerited favour that was supposed to be on Jesus is poured on the believer. Hence when we take of the Holy Communion which is done in rememberance Jesus, we are in a sense looking to the “bronze serpent” that is lifted up and receive our healing.

The next point I want to make was in response to what u wrote here

2.beowulf said --> But I strongly disagree with Prince that Christ’s body was “broken so that our bodies can be made well.” So far, he has not explicitly proven the Scriptural passage indicates that the Holy Communion brings about physical healing.


My answer:
Let’s refer to a passage in Gospel according to John. John 6:48-58
John 6:48-58 : I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?” 53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed,[h] and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

Here Jesus specifically talks about the Holy Communion which He instituted on the night before He went to the cross, none of those around Him understand what He is talking about. Jesus in essence is talking about how to gain this eternal life(in greek is Zoe which means Spiritual life, spiritual life does not mean it has to be after death or that it is intangible, the resurrected Christ came back in a spiritual body yet it was tangible). By believing in Him, feeding on all that he has provided on the cross through the Holy communion. I have already proven in the previous chapter that eternal life starts the moment the believer accepts Jesus into his life and it encompass well being of the person , not just escaping hell fire. So here we have linked Holy Communion to healing.

Bro beowulf, I hope u read the Word of God in its entirety and not leave out certain passages that perhaps u are taught or familiar with, only then can u grasp if certain teaching is incorrect or else u would be the one stubbornly in error. Be a good bearean and search up the Word to see if any teaching is correct. The Word of God tells us the Berean did not go about telling everybody if they found out if Paul was right or he was wrong, they found out for their own sake. So I hope u do not accuse not just this pastor prince but other men of God on ur blogs anymore. We know that it is God who cuase a Church to grow and if God anointed certain pastor and u go against them, have u no fear of God?

There are other points u brough up I will reply them also:


3.beowulf wrote --> “In the above quote, Prince misinterpreted Isaiah 53:5, which he has taken out of context. This verse also partially reappeared in 1 Peter 2:24. The phrases “transgressions,” “iniquities” and “bore our sins” all shows that the healing is spiritual, not physical.”

My answer:
So we have to ask ourselves is what Jesus suffered on the cross physical or only spiritual? He suffered not juts physical but emotionally as he is betrayed by Judas and also spiritually as God the Father for the moment on the cross forsake Jesus which is why Jesus cried out “Eloi, Eloi, labasabathani , My God, my God why have u forsaken me” So Isaiah 53 was talking about Jesus suffering that he was broken, chastised and whip with strip so that we can receive not just spiritual peace but physical one also.


4. beowulf -->Likewise, the doctrine of healing through the Holy Communion takes away the full glory of healing from God by making Him dependant on rituals. The truth of the matter is, as God can save at any time He pleases, He could also heal at any time He pleases. God does not need man-driven rituals to aid Him in carrying out His will.

My answer:
It is not God who needs this rituals but Man. We are visual, feeling creatures and God who created us knows that. Hence Jesus likes to use stories to help people visualize, he perform miracles so that people can see the power of God. Read John 10:24-26 By using rituals God give us a tangible things which we can focus our faith even though that faith is on Jesus! It’s perfectly ok, in the old testament God told them to build the tabernacle with the holies and holies, show bread, menorah, the burnt offerings, sin offerings all these point to Jesus. These symbols carry meaning and the more we understand the ritual, the more we understand the message God wants to convey.

I hope I have answered ur questions regarding the Health and Wholeness through Holy Communion. This teaching according to the Word of God is perfectly correct and I believe in the coming days God will reveal more of His Word to the church as the days become more evil to protect and bless the church. I hope bro Beowulf that u sincerely study the Word of God and examine of these teachings, if they are right I hope u will humbly accept them and I believe they will bless u. We are so much taught by theologians from Europe and many times the interpretation is according to European culture. But Jesus is a Jew hence a middle eastern. Their culture is in a sense closer to our Asian culture actually. When something is new it does not mean it is wrong, it could very well be God revealing something new from the Word, we just have to repent in greek means metanoia which means to have a change of mind to accept the teaching. (traditionally we think repent means turning away from sin but it actually all starts in the mind)

ok i have wrote enough, God bless u.

14/11/06 12:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, if Jesus has done it all for you, which includes Healing, to believe in Healing by remembering His Work through Communion is not difficult. And don't beowulf, whoever you are, don't flag what you know about God's Will, and God's Will and all that. You want to know what God's Will, look at Jesus. If it ain't God's Will to heal, I think Jesus made a multitude of mistakes healing people when He was here. DUH!

17/11/06 9:35 AM  
Anonymous Sara said...

In my opinion, Joseph Prince has made the bible so much simpler to understand that my relationship with Jesus is a thousand times better than it was before! I say...go for it Joseph...negative comments are part and partial of life..especially when you are doing right in spreading God's words. You must be doing something right to get this blogger to post a comment on what ur doing. God bless you even more!

20/11/06 12:12 PM  
Anonymous Beloved Child of Most High God said...

Heavenly Father, Thank You for Pastor Joseph Prince and his faithfulness to Your cause, for the Bible says, "it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful" (1 Corinthians 4:2). Thank You for his personal commitment to Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour and to the Word of God. Thank You for the love he has for his wife and family demonstrating a stable and healthy family. For the Scripture says of church leadership, "he must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect" (1 Timothy 3:4). Thank You for his thoughtful exposition of Your Word, as he heeds Your call to "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction" (2 Timothy 4:2). Thank You for his leadership in our church services and the orderly manner in which he leads us, seeking to fulfill the Biblical call that "all things be done decently and in order" (1 Corinthians 14:40). Thank You for his interest in the flock under his care.

In the powerful name of Jesus and by Your blood we ask You to cover Pastor Joseph Prince with such a powerful anointing.Multiply New Creation Church with a mighty growth and outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Draw Pastor Prince into an even deeper relationship with You. Help Pastor Prince to grow spiritually stronger. Bless this very special, anointed servant of Yours. Lord, place Your angels all around this very special servant. Oh Lord we pray in the wonderful name of Jesus. AMEN.

29/11/06 2:21 PM  
Blogger vincent said...

quote ' The phrase “this is my Body which is broken for you,” refers to the body of Christ that was crucified on the cross. The body of the Old Testament sacrificial lamb is a type of the body of Christ, foreshadowing the atonement of Christ in the New Testament. As I have explained before, Christ becomes our Passover Lamb that was slain, who fulfilled and abolished the Old Testament ritual of the Passover. So when we partake in the Lord’s Supper, we remember that Christ's body was sacrificed on Calvary and His blood poured out for us. End quote

I see if thats what you believe and i believe that too.Thats great..

Looks like you taken it out of context and ignor other scriptures regarding the body of Christ......

You seems to forget that Isaiah talks about the body being broken on the cross to carry not just sin but sickness as well.

And in NT there's a verse that says ' BY HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED...

Now put all these scriptures together plus the one you gave me..you get the complete pictures..unless of course you yourself dont believe God still heals today ?

I pity you and the denomination that you're from !!!

This is my last post..

5/12/06 12:46 AM  
Blogger vincent said...

oh yeah.. i forgot to repeat this line again..

it is strange that when a person was healed in a temple..all the temple worshipers will be there..saying 'this god is powerfuil'... but when a christian was healed during Holy communion..we say 'its of the devil'.

Looks like you are afraid of the devil more than God..

or shld i say... you believe that God heals in the past..but not today..so you are saying.. the devil do heals today..in other religion you say ? Well have you visited one?Saw it with your own eyes?..of course you just heard it ?

So looks like God and the devil change place ?

In past God do miracles (we all agree on that)

but now God stop doing healing business and the devil IS...hmmm looks like you believe that God and the devil SWAP identity..

Here goes all your 'intelectualism'

5/12/06 12:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow...
What a long blog.
I only know simple facts. Our abba GOD and LORD JESUS love us. They love me personally. By grace in New Creation Church, my life transformed.

We are in the world. However, we are NOT of this world. Healing in Holy Communion? YES! I experience it. No if, no but and no however.

Brothers and sisters in Christ, Holy Communion is your entitlement. Aren't we blessed in Christ without seeing?

Our Abba GOD and LORD JESUS love us.

5/12/06 8:30 PM  
Anonymous John Lim said...

Pastor Prince is fantastic! Mark my word, you are going to see New Creation Church becoming the biggest church in Singapore. Yes, even bigger than City Harvest Church. In fact, in a recent poll, Pastor Kong Hee is not as popular as Pastor Prince. It must be because his wife is now a singer in the secular world. Poor man! He doesn't see his wife and kid often. Let's pray for his marriage to survive. Anyway, God bless Pastor Prince!!!

11/12/06 10:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was just surfing around when I found your blog. I applaud you for your post and reading some of your commentators who disagree with you, (I did not finish all 50) I can only say, please growup and if there is any rebuttal, it should be argued based on bible doctrine.

To those who wrote in defense of Prince, It does not matter if NCC is going to be bigger than CHC, that's beside the point. I don't care if Pastor Prince is going to be bigger than so and so, that's beside the point. If there is anything to be boastful of, please boast about how sound and solid is the doctrine he (Prince) is preaching.

I was given a few CDs of Pastor Prince from a Singaporean friend. I'm relieved there are good people like your goodself who stood your ground and spoke for the TRUTH. All the best to you. :-)

Cheers
Helen

11/12/06 2:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

how to boast when you know that everything is by grace alone?

11/12/06 5:17 PM  
Anonymous john lim said...

Wow! You all should get a copy of New Creation Church's latest SOLID ROCK magazine. Pay close attention to testimonies of those who attended Pastor Prince's Grace and Favour Seminar at Hillsongs Sydney. They are awesome! Can you imagine Hillsongs people endorsing him like that? He is definitely the Number ONE Pastor from Singapore! We are so blessed to have him as part of the body of Christ. Let's allow Christ to speak to us through this man. His message on the Holy Communion is powerful. So often we have been deceived that Christ only saved us from our sins and not our sicknesses. We have shortchanged ourselves of divine health Christ has purchased for us by His perfect and complete work on the cross. In fact, health is so important that even John had to remind us in 3 John 2 when he prayed we prospered in ALL things and be in HEALTH. Health is repeated apart from ALL things. What a powerful revelation! So, my brothers and sisters in Christ, rise and know who you are in Christ and what does it mean to be a child of God. You are precious and God wants to bless you exceedingly, abundantly, above all that you ask or think. Let His goodness lead you to repentance and renew your mind He is your Heavenly Fathers who desires to give you good things, health included. Don't stay defeated and deceived, but rest in the victory our Saviour has given us so graciously. For it is not the truth that sets you free, but the truth you know that sets you free. Amen!

17/12/06 7:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am distured by John Lim comments regarding Pastor Joseph Prince are more popular than Pastor Kong Hee in a recent poll and New Creation Church going to be a bigger church than City Harvest Church.

Before I proceed my writing, allow me to introduce myself that I am from New Creation Church. I fully agreed with Helen comments. If there is any rebuttal, it should be argued based on bible doctrine.

It is not Christlike to mention whichever church going to outgrow whichever church and in depth of Pastor wife as a singer. Whether having family time etc.

Lets respect them. Both Pastor Joseph Prince and Pastor Kong Hee are chosen by GOD to grow their churches.

As Pastor Joseph Prince mentioned in one of his sermons "If NCC members going around telling people how good Pastor Joseph Prince is, NCC had FAIL! However, if NCC members going around telling people how good GOD and LORD JESUS are?, New Creation Church have succeed!".

All churches in Singapore will GROW! Not because how good the Pastors are etc. Its GOD and more people knows the truth.

Only the truth THEY KNOW will set them free.

Shalom,
Jason Tan

17/12/06 10:19 PM  
Anonymous john lim said...

Yes, I agree with Jason. My apologies if I sounded unchristian. My point is God uses people; without us God will not; without God we cannot. Yes, let's pray for all churches to grow. But we can't deny that some churches like NCC are growing faster than others. I was merely stating a fact. Please don't be offended. I was also rejoicing over a pastor who has made quite an impact in the christian world. By the way, do you know that even Times Bookshop is carrying Pastor Prince's books, CDs and DVDs? I believe he may be the first one in Singapore to do so. Indeed, Pastor Prince is a blessing to the body of Christ. So, Jason, you being a member of NCC should be proud of your pastor. May his tribe increase!

20/12/06 7:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear wooQ,
Based on the scripture, it is God prerogative who He choses to heal or not to heal, physically. Communion is not about healing. Its about Christ. How he sacrified Himself for us and we are commended to remember this until He returns. Christians today are shallow and lazy, they prefer to be spoonfed rather than search the scriptures by themselves. It is because of this, they are easily duped to another gospel and many false teachings. I have seen so many rubbish in the charismatics/pentecostal churches. I accepted the Lord 22 years ago and grew up in an AOG church. I have left the AOG church 8 years ago. I got tired of all the emphasis of the Holy spirit and signs and wonders. I prefer the story of the old rugged cross. Paul says he preachers Christ and Christ crucified. The AOG had previously believed in holiness and separation, but alas not anymore. One sure way to test if a Preacherman loves God is to remove his richess, his fanciful dresses, car etc... be careful of rich pastors and elders. Be like Peter, silver and gold have I none.... If your pastor has a big house, a big car,etc... and has a better life financially than you or the poorest person in the church, then you better get out of that church. A true servant of God does not stock up riches on earth.

1/1/07 1:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Uh..oh, too late, healed already. shd have known this earlier. B'cos of holy comm n knowing i'm righteous by Jesus' taking my sin: got healed of stroke, can walk, talk and swing my right arm, n can run fast. Healed of asthma,sinus, psoriasis, migraine, smoking, bad temper, poverty ( he becam poor so i'll be rich; 2 cor8:9). too late about being poor, now i'm so rich, i have to give them away...my Father's rich. Thank God n Jesus!

27/1/07 1:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ah,it's sad to see christians fighting each other.definitely agree with the grace message pastor prince have preach about and regardless of his character flaws,he still is righteous and cleanse from all sins because of JESUS CHRIST. hey,if we look at him,we are looking at pastor prince.im from malaysia and im not from ncc but heck,if someone like me,a sinner can become a new creation and see countless blessings,i dont look at doctrines i look at results.the charismatics scared me with their loud lamentations,i never heard it from ncc. anyway,why fight each other.it'so trivial.if u dont want to believe it,fine.you know,ur own choice.god wont stop u.but for me and my family,im taking whatever god wants for me.my daddy,my jesus,they were there when i needed them,where were this christians who know the bible thru and thru.no where.in fact,i was condemned by the church and look at me now.im free.but i forgive them because jesus died for my sins and made me righteous. hey man,stop being self-righteous. i remember pastor prince says that dont defend him,god's hand is bigger.and btw,the results shows,if he was not of god,then why would his church accelerate in members,prosperity surpass the norm,hmm? i dont care if pastor prince is a lousy character or not,the truth is,the word brings life,and when he preach i feel alive.period.stop fighting people.jesus still loves u all personally.
chiao

29/1/07 10:52 AM  
Anonymous onesheep said...

I've seen our Lord's hand in all of these. Regardless how you want to argue or be theological right, is the results that is more important. Many people has their opinion on Pastor Prince message but I could boldly said this that I have seen the work of GOd's hand thru "healing thru the Holy Communion" message. I knew because I've sent numerous copies to people in USA. Many American friends of mine, in turn , sent to all those they know. There were testimonies that my friends sent me were all testimonies of healing and made whole by our God, our Lovely Jesus.
In the end, Jesus is the one who gets all the Glory. How can one argue with a blind man who was made well? No one can argue their healing and how God has used Pastor Prince message to reach people who truly need revelations and understanding partaking Holy Communion. I don't think the person who said this messge is a heresay truly understand how God's heart. Afterall, Pastor Prince did not glorified himself, is Jesus that is being glorfied and magnified. All of Christ and none of self.

5/2/07 11:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello bro and sis in Christ

I agreed that Liew say we should be proud of Pastor Prince,I also agreed that Jason say we should not belittle other church's pastor.Let's pray for the pastors of our nations.Becase they are the leaders of the body of Christ.Pray for them that Jesus will give them the revelations of how good God is.
Ah fit

11/2/07 9:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Pastor Prince, like Paul, spent his entire salvation searching the scriptures and received revelation to set God's people free from sickness, diseases, poverty and every curse under the sun, let's rejoice then that God has raised such a man who cares deeply about His glory; so deeply that he is willing to sacrifice even his own reputation among his fellow brothers in Christ that God might be glorified. No wonder then that God is heaping rich rewards upon him - growing his ministry, expanding his influence, anointing his words, giving him revelation after revelation, fresh bread from heaven, and blessing him and his flock with health and wealth, so much abundance that there is not room enough to receive it.

Truly, God is faithful and never forgets our labour of love unto Him. He sees our deeds in secret and rewards us in public.

May the Lord bless Pastor Prince and every king, leader and those in authority with wisdom and favour that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life.

14/2/07 2:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi, just want to comment on NCC which I attended for past 1yr. I have grown in a deeper relationship with Jesus & known the love of God in a deeper way that lead me out of my panic attacks. I have never been more passionate in my faith than when I was in my previous Methodist Ch in Boundary Road, when I served as a cell leader, worship leader, Boys Brigade & various committees. In fact the previous Methodist Pastor-in-charge tried to teach on the Blood Covenant (our blessings in Christ) but things never progressed after he moved on to greater calling in the Methodist organization here. Now the new pastors of that Methodist Ch said in a prayer meeting that "evil has entered the Church" after someone shared on taking holy communion in their cell groups (having learnt from NCC). Its funny cause the pastors have no idea many of their serving members are taking in spritual food from NCC. For me, I'm new wine and won't fit into the old wineskin anymore. Amen. Jonathan

19/2/07 9:59 PM  
Anonymous L-link said...

Does it matter? yall are christians and yall are fighting over this?sheesh..i might s well convert back to atheism .. but guess what..i cant..i know there's a god out there who loves me so much and sent his son 2 die for my sins, my poverty, and my curses..and i get what jesus deserves..woww... i loveee my life now..thats for sure..u shud try to do that sometime..instead of living with this whole judgemental pharisee thing u have goin on.,.. so what if p.j.prince's teachings goes against urs? so many agree with him..n there r those agreeing with u..so let it b.. we'll find out who's d right one when we reach heaven m i right? nyway..to those who claim p.j.prince doesnt follow the holy spirit..yall gotta rmmbr this..if at any time he goes against god.. he wouldnt hav thousands of members and hillsong wouldnt hav invited him..trust me..the guy and his chruch is bein blessed by god..come on .. if god doesnt wanna bless us..god must be very poor..then we shud all donate some of our cash 2 god.. but..i know my god is rich..n he loves me..n he has BLESSED Me. so look, forget the rift between churches today..forgive..cos god loves u..
for me, i like pastor joseph prince.. i dun worship him or his church..i just love the way he makes jesus known to each and everyone of us.i may not be the most religious or "righteouss" person with my own doing.. but it is thru christ who strengthens me n im made the righteousness of god THROUGH CHRIST.. and .. thats good..haha
so thank u jesus

shalom yall..
god has blessed u wooq..just proclaim it..

20/2/07 12:49 AM  
Blogger barnz said...

Read the comments on this post with great interest, and would like to contribute my two cents' worth:
1. I don't think wooQ wrote this post without good, honest reason
2. I find wooQ's treatise rather sound biblically
3. I know for a fact that Joe Prince preaches and teaches many parts of Scripture very well and in an orthodox manner, and that many people are growing in the Lord as a result of his ministry; a friend of mine who was born into a Christian family, who in 40 years hardly read the Bible himself, has started reading the Bible regularly as a result of attending NCC! We can't deny that there are good things happening in NCC
4. I also know for a fact that Joe Prince's ministry of the Word has the lethal potential of creating a generation of lawless believers who overly-rest on God's grace, disregarding some parts of Scripture (please note that I said it has the potential to do so, not that it has absolutely done so in all cases); but I do know someone who is a friend of NCC, who is a leader in a denominational church who has used strong and rude language to speak against his pastors' teachings because he felt that they are in error (when compared to what Joe Prince teaches) and who advocates NCC teachings to many in his denominational church despite being asked not to do so by the pastors repeatedly
5. wooQ's intention is clear to me - to direct us all back to the Word (therefore, may I suggest that we do not take anyone's word in, including wooQ, Joe Prince or mine, without personal, careful study of God's Word, Spirit-led and unbiased)
6. If wooQ is wrong, would he humbly apologize? would NCC members and friends graciously forgive him? Is there room in our theology for extending love and grace unconditionally to one another? Or is there room only to receive God's unconditional love and grace for ourselves without extending it to others?
7. What if wooQ is right, would NCC members and friends humbly acknowledge that their fav pastor's revelation is not always divine?
8. As a pastor myself, I must admit that I don't always get it right - I like what Edmund Chan said, "I wear an L-plate, I'm always learning" - so do I.

20/2/07 9:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Barnz,

You have made several sweeping assumptions in your response. To set the record straight:

1. We do not worship Pastor Prince nor is he the only favourite pastor. We are blessed with many anointed pastors in NCC. As the bible teaches, we do honour all our pastors, including Pastor Prince, as God's authority over us. One way we honour him is to speak well of him, and give thanks to God for him.
2. We do not swallow his teachings as if we are lamb led to the slaughter. We do read the Word and in fact, we seek first His kingdom and His righteousness. And believe it or not, God does confirm His own Word directly with us, including confirming Pastor Joseph Prince's teachings. When God says Yes, who are we to say No.
3. For the person who spoke against his own church leadership, it's very unfortunate. NCC does not usurp authority over non members and the leadership always remind us that above all else, do all things for Jesus' glory.

Just tongue-in-cheek, you mentioned "lawless believers who overly-rest on God's grace". May I know which part of the Cross and crucifixion you feel you have contributed to that have earned you your salvation and entry to heaven. Which part of God's grace you have no need of?

As you rightly said, we are all learning. Therefore, let's bear and forebear with one another and overlook the speck in others' eyes knowing there's a log in our own.

21/2/07 12:09 AM  
Blogger barnz said...

Hi anonymous, by the way, why do you remain anonymous? Anyway, I'm afraid I didn't say NCC people worships JP, I merely said their "fav pastor" - and I said it because whenever NCC is mentioned by people, we very seldom hear of any other pastor mentioned, except for very occasional honorable mention of Pastor Mark (of the Hokkien congregation I believe). Brother or sister, neither did I say that NCC folks swallow JP's teachings wholesale without first reading the Word themselves and seeking God's confirmation, I believe you're referring to my point #5, please re-read it, I made no such accusation leh :) I was merely inferring wooQ's intention.

With regards to your questions to me ... What Jesus did for us on the cross was totally initiated by the Lord, a demonstration of His love, while we were yet sinners. We were and still are undeserving of His redemptive work, He did it so that we can be reconciled to the Father. I contributed nothing to it. What I did do, which was only possible because of God's grace, was to say "yes I believe, I repent, please forgive me my sins, and I receive You as my Savior, and not just as my Savior, but my Lord (Master), from now on I do what You say, I live to fulfill Your commands. My life is no longer my own, it was bought with a price. Let me know You, in the power of Your resurrection and the fellowship of Your suffering." This part wasn't done for me, I had to choose to believe, as I believe you have also done. But if I had chosen not to respond to the preaching of the Gospel, I would still be an unsaved sinner, wouldn't I? So, while I did not and could not earn my salvation, I cooperated with the Lord, I responded to His call to be saved. As for which part of God's grace I have no need of, well, I need it all. Also, in choosing to believe in Him, I've also chosen to abide/remain in Him; to obey Him even when the carnal part in me don't feel like it. We've been given not only grace, but there are also numerous biblical imperatives. E.g. Mt.28:19-20 is known as the Great Commission not the Great Persuasion, it is an imperative, not a suggestive, it is a mandate, not an option. Just from the little circle of friends I have, the ones who have been listening to JP's teachings seems to not want to live a life of Christian duty - considering it to be living by law and not grace. As a result, I'm quite concerned. Maybe I need to expand my circle of NCC friends so I get a more balanced view. Do you, my brother or sister, talk only about God's grace? or do you also speak about our Christian duty?

21/2/07 12:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

personally, i've been very blessed through Pastor Prince's teaching on healing including Health and Wholeness through Holy Communion. not only hv i experienced healings in my body, i have experienced other breakthroughs too.

About Pastor Prince's character, i really thank GOD for him and i say, he is certainly a man of what he preaches. Look at the board of Pastors in the church and leaders, how much unity there is.

Pastor Prince has not taught apart from the Holy Spirit's leading. The HOLY SPIRIT always glorifies JESUS. So a HOLY SPIRIT filled message always point to JESUS.

personally, i was a legalistic Christian, it was very difficult for me at first to understand or accept grace messages. GOD knew how to help me in this area when i began to open up. The LORD so often confirms what HE taught me in the spirit during devotion, new revelation about grace through the next sermon of Pastor Prince. so often and sometimes so accurately word for word. This still happens and i'm so amazed. With this, i know that Pastor Prince doesn't preach out of his head, but he is so led by the Holy Spirit. And what is important, through all his ministry, i'm falling deeper and deeper in love with JESUS and that's what matters most.

rOse

21/2/07 1:37 AM  
Blogger barnz said...

Thanks roSe, guess you're experiencing the joy of the contrast because you used to be legalistic; for me, i've always been taught in both enjoying God's grace and favor AND fulfilling my call and destiny in life, obeying Christ's commands joyfully though like I said earlier, not always easy. But deep inside, there is the joy of holiness and the joy of God's friendship :) Keep growing in the grace and holiness of God, sister.

21/2/07 10:33 AM  
Blogger barnz said...

by the way, rOse, you haven't responded to my question about whether you speak about Christian duty besides God's grace? heard near nothing about Christian duty from NCC friends so far, so very curious what you think? does living in grace obliterate Christian duty?

21/2/07 10:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

when i was a legalistic Christian, trying so hard to please GOD, i used to serve in church till i burnt out and complained and complained.

Now, to me serving the LORD is so natural and such a joy that i don't find it a duty at all.
i look out in many ways i could bless lives, in sharing the gospel, always praying for HIS people and enjoying everything i do. i am the organiser of the Japanese and Christian meetup in Singapore http://japanese.meetup.com/7
http://christiansocial.meetup.com/7
which i consider an outreach ministry. I enjoy meeting people and sharing Christ in every way - in fact i am no longer shy to do street witnessing.

now, i seldom talk about what i do but to answer your question, i elaborate a bit here. i serve the LORD because HE first loved me and served me. it's not duty. it's not obligation. it's from a life and heart that is so satisfied, contented and filled with such abundance from the LORD that overflows. as i have been so blessed, i want to see other lives changed and blessed. too I want to see JESUS glorified, i just want to see JESUS smile! It's a passion and desire!

i think it goes the same with our Church members. They are serving the LORD in many ways with much joy and won't even mention it as a duty. Anyway, i'm sure many has realised that any New Creation member who has been attending faithfully some time - they can't stop talking about JESUS! it's so blessedly infectious!! Hallelujah!!

21/2/07 12:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shannon,
i am surprised you mention that Pastor Prince shd stop ignoring the Holy Spirit. if you hv listened to Pastor Prince's sharing, you would note that HE has never ignored the HOLY SPIRIT. He has so often taught us how wonderful the HOLY SPIRIT is in revealing CHRIST, GOD's love & grace in the Scriptures - in pointing to JESUS and taught us how to flow in the Spirit. HE has always encouraged us to pray in the Spirit.

love,
rOse

21/2/07 12:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

in the past, when i come across unpleasant remarks on my Pastor, i get mad and upset cos i can't understand how such a lovely Pastor like him should be attacked. but now, i thank GOD, i can be at rest and peace.

Pastor, if you are reading this, i want you to know, like what you've taught us. it doesn't matter what men says. what matters is what the LORD says. Moreover, you know too, that those who have sat in your ministry for some time, stands with you, and are so appreciative of you.

I thank GOD for you so much.
I am such a contented, blessed, loved, happy sheep of the LORD!

Loving Daddy-GOD,
i pray for all those who have spoken against my Pastor and his teachings which YOU have taught through YOUR SPIRIT, that you forgive them and that they repent,
so that they can enjoy your peace.
Dad, give them an opportunity to be blessed by my Pastor's ministry, as much as we have been blessed. Continue to pour your grace, your power and anointing to our Pastor and let your blessings richly flow through Pastor Prince's ministry in every nation. i also ask you to bless every Church and Pastor represented by the members here, that their ministries will grow and be fruitful, exalting JESUS' Name, bringing souls to YOUR loving kingdom too. i ask that YOUR love be so felt at this blog, that there'll be such unity & love, for we all belong to one body - the body of CHRIST JESUS our LORD and our desire is always to glorify HIM. Amen!

Love you aLL!!
rOse

21/2/07 1:27 PM  
Blogger barnz said...

Dear rOse, honestly, and from my heart, there is certainly no room for concern about you :) praise be to God! may believers everywhere rejoice in our salvation and rejoice in serving the Lord who first served us :) may we live a life worthy of our calling :)

21/2/07 7:12 PM  
Anonymous Lily Lim said...

Hi Barnz

As a member of NCC, I've been taught about my "christian duty" by the grace of God. It is His grace that has taught me to serve Him and others. It is His grace that made all things possible. So, I lean hard on His grace and His grace is teaching me all things.

28/2/07 11:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmm..What is one thing that is required of us? To only believe right? Just another Question,..why do some of you Limit God? He is limitless.He can use all things and do all things and All time! And that will include Being healed through Holy communion...Hello..where is all your simple faith like little Children??

3/3/07 9:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just wondering if the blog was just a publicity stunt to gain hits.... just a IT tech point of view.

26/3/07 5:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why do you guys defend Joseph Prince? Amen to that.
Do you guys make as much money as he makes - say 300,000 per annum in religious works? Right! Amen. Habitually visiting the fatherless? No. Habitually visiting the elderlies? No. Habitually visiting the aids victims,sick? No. Habitually talk a lot in lips service! Yes. Amen to that!
What about a dreamed BMW-changing to new models after being tired of the old? Amen. Condos? Amen. How about body guards? Amen. You guys are jinx compared to him. Why are you guys being not as healthy and wealthy as he is since he is your pastor? Because you give to him and not to God! Amen! Is this a TT Durai of the New Testament, oops, of the Charity Act?
Poor Jesus and apostles who died at 33 and most others were martyred and some suffered respectively! The Prince of the world must always be wealthy and healthy! We will see about that. Time will tell.

24/4/07 12:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have a niece-in-law who has been with NCC for many years. Her mother and sister are all in New Creation. They play Mah-jongs, buy lotteries,cards etc. without any conviction of sin. They said, "Jesus has forgiven their sins on the cross, we can comfortably be, without a troubled conscience,playing "games" as we like." My son has a friend from New Creation, who steals and fights in school. A habitual gangster but love to hear Jos. Pr. Many others from the New Creation I have met, do not believe in confession of sins to God and repentance of sins unto life through Jesus Christ. "There is no need to say sorry because Jesus has forgiven our sins on the cross. Our sins are washed away, forgiven and forgotten." At one reading, it sounds so good. But if this is a true Bible teaching, I will not be a Christian. When our unbelieving friends wronged us, they said "Sorry". New Creation Christians do not say sorry any more than they asked God to forgive through Christ. It breeds a society of impenitent hardcore sinners who takes the forgiveness of God through Christ for granted.

THE FORGIVENESS OF GOD IS SO SWEET THAT IT STRENGTHENS US AS CHRISTIANS TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS IN OUR FUTURE SIN, THOUGH ALL OF OUR SINS ARE FORGIVEN IN THE POSITION AS A BELIEVER IN CHRIST. I must subscribe to the writer of this article - one error will go to another - heresy in holy communion then heresy in the teaching of forgiveness and repentance.

In one message of J Prince CDs in preaching on the teaching of Confession of Sins, he recited the Lord's prayer but when he came to Matthew chapter 6 verse 12'FORGIVE US OUR DEBTS AS WE FORGIVE OUR DEBTORS" he quickly changed and said that this verse was given before Christ's resurrection, hence not applicable now. I wonder by what authority he deviates from the Lord's teaching. Our Lord Jesus did not say it but he said it.

Dear friends, it is not only doctrinal heresy being found in J Prince's teachings and writings but practical Christian living is deviated.

Jesus said:Matthew 7:[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Come out of the broad way of the New Creation because of damnable heretical teachings.

24/4/07 1:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HEALTH AND WEALTH GOSPEL PREACHERS IN DILEMMA
Health and wealth Gospel which is another Gospel is not a new thing. There are many human-elevated preachers in the past who met an end of their ministry by being intoxicated with human glory, wealth and health - they would do anything. They have passed the same roads of wealth and health which ended up in scandalous and outrageous sins.

1. Jimmy Swaggart (1935-), a televangelist (television evangelist) who by the mid-80s, he had become the world's richest and most famous hypocritical "evangelist". He preached health and wealth sermons. His operation raked in more than $150 million annually. Every week, his television program "The Jimmy Swaggart Telecast" attracted eight million viewers. In 1987, when Jim Bakker of the PTL (Praise the Lord) movement collapsed due to scandalous sin, it was almost too good to believe - Swaggart went on CNN and told Larry King that Bakker was a "cancer in the body of Christ." Photos were taken of Swaggart with a Louisiana prostitute. He was confronted by the Assembly of God leadership, he had no choice but to confess. Jimmy seemed contrite: "I have sinned against you, my Lord, and I would ask that your precious blood would wash and cleanse every stain until it is in the seas of God's forgetfulness, never to be remembered against me." But he made no specific mention of the nature of his transgressions, referring only to some vague "moral failure." Maybe he was following the advice of his attorney.

In March 1989, a woman named Catherine Campen claimed to have extramarital relationship with him. In July 1989, an interview with Debra Murphree, a prostitute claimed Swaggart asked whether he could have her 9 year old daughter.

His empire floundered and never recovered. He squandered God's offerings for lavish living and justified himself as God's provision as approved by his session. Interestingly, these things happened to big time “pastors” and "evangelists" and people have short memories about them.

2. Jim Bakker (1939 - ) - Up until 1987, televangelist Jim Bakker and his wife Tammy Faye were living in extravagance. The way they told it, prosperity was a gift from God, and He had blessed them with an army of followers and immense personal fortunes. The PTL (Praise the Lord) ministry had a burn rate of $500,000 per day.

Jim got snagged funneling $265,000 in hush money to the church secretary, Jessica Hahn to cover up their adulterous living.

The Bakkers and their empire had blown through $158 million of their ministry's donations. In his self-serving confession "I Was Wrong," Jim admitted squandering church money on luxury cars and six mansions. When he got caught, there were 47 separate bank accounts in Jim's name.

Jan 1989 Article "The Devil in Jim Bakker: His Homosexual Lover and Pimp Tells All" appears in Penthouse. His wife divorced him.

Jun 2003 Jim Bakker returns to the televangelism racket, in The New Jim Bakker Show.

3. Robert Tilton – "Take the enclosed poster of me and put it up on your refrigerator or mirror, somewhere so you'll see it every day. Then for the next 21 days, lay your hand on top of mine and agree with me that you deserve a miracle."
For a good long while he managed to avoid the same media scrutiny responsible for bringing down Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart and numerous others. Pastor of the World Outreach Centre Church could be seen in all two hundred and fifty three U.S. television markets.

At his peak, Tilton was purchasing 5,000 hours of air time each month. His mass-market ministry pulled in an estimated $80 million per year, and his church drew as many as 5,000 worshippers to Sunday service. Tilton gleaned the donations by pitching a narrow, well-oiled version of the Pentecostal prosperity gospel: in exchange for a $1,000 vow, Tilton promised to lobby God for miraculous improvements of health and finances. An interview with a woman who spent two days opening mails for Tilton. She told reporters that she and other workers were instructed to remove any cash, checks, or jewelry from the returned mailers, and throw the prayer requests written to Tilton (caution: spoilers) into the trash can.

According to one survey, he spent 68 percent of his air time asking for money. "If Jesus Christ were alive today and walking around, he wouldn't want his people driving Volkswagens and living in apartments," he was quoted as saying.
Tilton's Word of Faith church was sold to the city of Farmers Branch, Texas, for $6.1 million in 1999. The Branch made plans to convert the 13-acre property into a convention center. Tilton used a portion of the money to settle a million-dollar fraud lawsuit filed by his first wife, Marte, in 1996.
After he and Marte divorced in 1993, Tilton married evangelist and former beauty queen Leigh Valentine. Valentine then turned around and divorced him two years later, citing constant abuse. He would throw her down stairs, slam her against walls, hurl cordless telephones at her head, drink himself into blind rages (often declaring he was the Pope) and wake up in the night screaming that rats were eating his brain. During divorce proceedings, she cited his constant paranoia and "disguise kits" (fake moustaches, $1200 custom-made wigs) which he'd wear frequently during their first year of marriage.

4. The latest, Ted Haggard (1956) graduate of Oral Roberts University founded the New Life Church at Colorado Spring from a basement church to an 8,000 seater church building. He was a very successful preacher and God prospered him so they claimed.

Haggard had been called the second-most powerful evangelical leader in America, just slightly behind Dobson. Haggard was elected President of the NAE in 2003. The group was founded just after World War II, in an effort to foster cross-denominational support instead of public disputes over the different doctrines of different churches. It now includes 43,000 churches with about 30,000,000 members in 51 denominations, and The Wall Street Journal reports that Haggard has "an advisory role" in the Bush-Cheney White House.

Haggard preached against homosexuals. In November 2006, he resigned from his leadership of the National Association of Evangelicals, America's largest evangelical group, and stepped down from the pulpit of his 14,000-member New Life Church amid allegations that he had paid for regular visits with a gay prostitute Michael Forest Jones.

Haggard denied the allegations, announcing to reporters, "I've never had a gay relationship with anybody, and I'm steady with my wife, I'm faithful to my wife." The following day, though, his church's acting pastor sent an email to members, stating that Haggard had "confessed" to church elders that "some of the accusations against him are true". Finish

All these above are extracts from reports of various sources.

Any one of three things which will end a popular preacher service for Christ:

1. Corrupted and deviated Doctrines
1Tim 1:
[5] Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
[6] From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
[7] Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
[8] But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
[9] Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[10] For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
[11] According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

2. Corrupted and deviated Teachings
1 Tim6:
[3] If any man teach otherwise, and CONSENT NOT TO WHOLESOME WORDS, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
[4] He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
[5] Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

3. Corrupted and deviated Christian Life –
Numbers 32:23 - But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and BE SURE YOUR SIN WILL FIND YOU OUT.

25/4/07 6:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TED HAGGARD

Affirming once most popular Charismatic pastor Ted Haggard of his fall. Popularity, health, wealth, lust and human praises are the causes of the fall of many high and mighty. Colorado Springs is never the same again. The community was terribly affected.

Documented:

Haggard bares his soul in note to congregation
Thousands listen as the former evangelical leader shares his moral failings in a letter read from the pulpit.
By Stephanie Simon, Times Staff Writer
November 6, 2006

COLORADO SPRINGS, COLO. — In the hush of a Sunday morning, believers grieved, struggled and forgave as their pastor, the Rev. Ted Haggard, confessed his sins.

"I am a deceiver and a liar," Haggard told 9,000 of his followers in a letter read from the pulpit of New Life Church by one of his spiritual mentors. "There's a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring against it for all of my adult life."

Men wiped at their eyes. Women clung to one another. A grandfather hugged his baby grandson close, rubbing the boy's small back. Haggard had founded this church in his basement. He had grown it to a congregation of 14,000. He had guided them to God and helped them triumph over sin, and he had done it always with a smile, ever exuberant, ever strong.

They wept to hear what he'd been hiding.

"For extended periods of time, I would enjoy victory and rejoice in freedom," Haggard wrote. "Then, from time to time, the dirt that I thought was gone would resurface, and I would find myself thinking thoughts and experiencing desires that were contrary to everything I believe and teach."

A male prostitute in Denver came forward last week claiming that Haggard had visited his apartment almost monthly over the last three years for sex and drugs. Haggard at first denied it. Then he said he bought meth from the man, but threw it away. On Sunday, he said this: "The accusations that have been leveled against me are not all true, but enough of them are true that I have been appropriately and lovingly removed from ministry."

Having resigned the presidency of the National Assn. of Evangelicals and been dismissed as senior pastor of New Life, Haggard said he and his wife, Gayle, "need to be gone for a while." He pledged to put himself under the guidance of several pastors who will help him work toward restoration.

"Please forgive me," he wrote. "I am so embarrassed and ashamed…. I am a sinner. I have fallen."

Then the Rev. Larry Stockstill, a Louisiana pastor, read aloud a short letter from Gayle Haggard. She said her heart was broken, but she promised to stand by her husband.

"For those of you who have been concerned that my marriage was so perfect I could not possibly relate to the women who are facing great difficulties, know that this will never again be the case," she wrote, evoking a ripple of laughter. "My test has begun; watch me. I will try to prove myself faithful."

The congregation rose as one. For a long minute, they stood, applauding, sniffling. Interim senior pastor Ross Parsley bounded to the podium. "Listen," he said, "we all feel worse than we did a week ago. But we were worse off a week ago. Today, we all are more obedient, more repentant, more transparent than we've been in a long time."

Here and there in the vast sanctuary, members of Haggard's congregation called out: "Amen."

Afterward, in the lobby, many worshipers echoed Parsley's words. Some were angry at Ted Haggard; many were bewildered. But all said that their faith was not shaken; it was renewed. They would hold fast to all Haggard had taught them over the years, including his preaching that homosexual behavior is an affront to God.

"He believes that what he taught us is true," said Carol Groesbeck, 61.

"I don't think there's anything that needs to be reevaluated," said her husband, Jim, 61, an elder at New Life Church. "We know what we believe, but it's difficult to live that out. That's not just Ted's struggle. It's our struggle."

Michelle Gatson, 37, said she felt reinvigorated by the service after a week that left her so spent, all she wanted to do was "be lying on the floor at home, crying." A member of the choir, she said she found healing in the songs of praise — praise not for any man, but for God. "I love my pastor," she said. "But I'm glad I didn't put my faith in him. He's human."

Added Ian Kallenbach, 26: "I hope he can deal with his demons."

Stockstill — who has been the Haggards' personal pastor for years — said he saw only relief in Ted Haggard's face when he informed him on Saturday that he was being removed from his position at New Life.

Haggard had been struggling for three years to balance his duties as pastor with his high-profile role as head of the evangelical association — a job that raised his political profile and got him invited to the Oval Office and in on conference calls with the White House.

Haggard had tried to carve out time to reflect and to write his books by secluding himself now and then in a Denver hotel. That is apparently when he first contacted the prostitute, Mike Jones, who advertised as a masseur in gay magazines.

Haggard alluded to this period in his letter, saying that his pride had prevented him from seeking counseling; he hadn't wanted to disappoint those who loved him. "When I stopped communicating about my problems," he wrote, "the darkness increased and finally dominated me."

As thousands of New Life members poured into the church for the second morning service, an usher bustled through the lobby carrying fresh boxes of tissues into the sanctuary. Children, released from Sunday school, raced toward the church coffee shop for goopy cinnamon rolls and giant chocolate muffins. A few TV crews milled about, filming interviews.

In the church bookstore, a father leaned against a display of Haggard's books and read aloud to his children from "Letters from Home." Published in 2002, the book is framed as a letter to the two oldest of the Haggards' five children, who were preparing for college at that time.

In a section called "Live as if there are no secrets," Haggard listed powerful men brought down by lust or lies, including presidents Nixon and Clinton and the Rev. Jimmy Swaggart. "Major leaders have lost their positions of influence because of what they did alone in a room," he wrote.

"Please don't ever fall into the trap of believing that you can do something in secret, even when you are far away from home," Haggard urged his children. "This is a lie, and it will always come back to haunt you."
END OF REPORT
CONCLUSION:
These words appended below are no legalism but sober warnings to all who profess Christ Jesus the Lord moreso for a preacher, a minster of the Gospel.
A sanctifying holy Christian life through Jesus Christ our Lord is not legalism but necessary to keep reproaches and snares of the devil away.

1Cor.10:12
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

1Tim.3:7
Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

28/4/07 8:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Anonymous who posted a comment on 24/4/07, 1:48pm,

I marvel at your boldness to condemn a man of God and indeed the entire church.

Your interpretation of what Ps Prince said IS ERRONEOUS, quoting you "in preaching on the teaching of Confession of Sins, he recited the Lord's prayer but when he came to Matthew chapter 6 verse 12'FORGIVE US OUR DEBTS AS WE FORGIVE OUR DEBTORS" he quickly changed and said that this verse was given before Christ's resurrection, hence not applicable now. I wonder by what authority he deviates from the Lord's teaching. Our Lord Jesus did not say it but he said it."

According to 2 Cor 5:21, we have been made righteous because Jesus was made sin. According to 1 Cor 1:30, Jesus is our wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption. According to Romans 4:25, Jesus was delivered up because of our offenses and was raised because of our justification. When Jesus spoke those words in Matthew, He had not yet shed His blood and man was not yet forgiven by God. After His blood was shed, believers stand forever forgiven because Jesus blood is eternally righteous. Romans 1:16, 17 further declares that the gospel of Christ is the righteousness of God revealed, from faith to faith. This is the authority of God's word and Jesus's blood; not man's word.

If you claim we are positionally forgiven but not practically, how then do you thank God for Jesus' blood on a practical basis? Are you constantly sin-conscious? This contradicts God's word which says when we have been cleansed by Jesus's blood, we are constantly righteous.

For illustration purpose, if a married person commits adultery, does that make the person a single? No, in the eyes of the legal system, the person is still married.

When a believer commits a sin, does that make a person a sinner? No, according to God's judicial system the person is still righteous in God's eyes because the Lamb of God has taken away the sin of the world.

We are not saying righteousness gives us licence to sin; we are saying Jesus' blood gives us the power to live righteous.

Regardless of your experience of people from New Creation, let's judge God's word based on His word alone and not other people's testimony because our salvation rests on Christ alone and not man's behaviour.

You quoted Matthew 7:13, 14 and you interpret that as grounds for condemnation of New Creation and doctrinal heresy. I would like to know this from you - how did you receive the life that Matthew 7:14 refers to? Was it by the narrow way, i.e. Jesus' sacrifice of Himself on the Cross? Or did you receive it by the broad way of self-effort?

Likewise, today, when a believer continues to put his trust in Christ's finished work alone, would he be entering the narrow or broad way?

Dear Anonymous, I pray that you will allow the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in you to open your eyes to know the love of God that is beyond comprehension, and to know the hope of His calling, that you may be filled with the fullness of God. (Eph 1:17-23, 3:14-21)

The grace of God be with you.

sharon

3/5/07 3:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Anonymous of 24/4/07,12:04pm,

1. You sound jealous that others are prosperous. We are not jinxed. Actually, there are many very prosperous, blessed, healthy, joyful, grateful, overflowingly-irrepressibly blessed people in church. Why don't you come and join us? Better to be blessed than bitter.

2. Health and wealth is NOT the gospel, grace of God is. And YES, YES, YES, God delights in making His children RICH!! The bible says He made Abraham RICH, He delivered the children of Israel from Egypt with SILVER AND GOLD AND NONE FEEBLE AMONG THEM.

3. Concerning good works, we'll let Jesus commend us when we get to heaven and receive our crowns from Him, hee hee :), rather than brag about it on earth for the sake of obtaining man's approval.

4. Heaven has streets of gold. Right now, Jesus is in heaven preparing a MANSION for each of us (that's even better than Condo!!) Hey Anonymous, start getting use to how prosperous you have become just because you have received Jesus as your personal saviour.

All this is not because we are hotshots, but because Jesus is goodness personified. Now that's something to say Amen to.

3/5/07 4:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Anonymous 3/5/07 4:52 PM

Nobody can stop you from worshipping the modern Golden Calf of Materialism and Mammon. You sounded mess up with RICHES, SILVER, GOLD, CONDOS, MANSIONS, PROSPERITY, with exclamations of YES!YES! YES! My friend, please listen, not everyone is Abraham in riches, but every Christian should be an Abraham in spiritual things - rich in faith. Again, we have a teaching from our Lord Jesus of the beggar Lazarus who never had had a day of properity in his lifetime but the unnamed rich man did. What happened then? Read it, my friend, for your sake.
What about the young rich ruler of his disappointment?

Don't forget-it is Heaven that has the streets of gold not the earth. This earth is dying. It is made up of the majority of "dying" people who are dying for prosperity and material blessings.

You wrote: "Jesus is goodness personified"
Here you are, wrong again! Jesus is not goodness personified (He is not subjected to goodness. Goodness is not a person or His master that he personified it but His original character quality.) but Jesus Christ our Lord is perfectly, wholly and altogether good! Amen!

I have written what is necessary, no more response from me. Bye.

Concerning your writing:
THE DOCTRINAL HERESY OF HEALING THORUGH THE HOLY COMMUNION

WooQ, my deep appreciation that you stand for God's truth being no respector of people. Be it a 100 fold more "Princy", God's sound doctrinal and practical truth must stand against damnable heresy. We pity those who are drawn into this system of Doctrinal heresy and error. I am certain we take no pleasure to write to contend for contending sake. I agree with you wholeheartedly that this is"HERESY EXPOSED."

4/5/07 1:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello sharon 3/5/07 3:43 PM

Like people who are taken up by heretic Joseph Prince:
1. Justification without sanctification through Jesus Christ.
2. Deny blatantly the verse which appear unpleasant for Christian practical life in the Lord's Prayer - "Forgive our debts as we forgive our debtors." It is fearful that self-righteousness causes the denial of this truth taught by Jesus Christ. There is no need of confession of sins, so Prince taught. "Christ died for us whose blood cleanses us from all sins.We are justified." Those who bear the marks of our wonderful Saviour Jesus Christ receive the blood for cleansing by faith. As the result of being justified, they confess their sins to God which is a sweet and wonderful exercise. Confession of sins will not justify their sins where Christ righteousness justify only. But our Lord made confession of sin so wonderful that TO KNOW THAT WE ARE PARDON is the joy and peace that pass understanding that the world knows nothing about.

3. Holy Communion for health when the whole Ordinance is "This do in rememberance of Me."

4. You said, "Regardless of your experience of people from New Creation, let's judge God's word based on His word alone and not other people's testimony because our salvation rests on Christ alone and not man's behaviour."

10th Commandment - THOU SHALT NO COVET - against gambling, greed, lucky draws and avarice. I am not judging gamblers, greed but God's Word. You are denying the Word of God in whitewashing sins.

Joseph Pr. talk so much about grace and God's Word who deny much of God's Word in preaching habitually.

In conclusion: REVELATION 22:[19] "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

WooQ, God is good to use your blog for many enquirers and deceived. May the Lord use this blog continuously to those who are taken up with gross doctrinal error of the "Prince".

4/5/07 7:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi,

To those who are ranting against the gospel of grace, I agree with your quote, "REVELATION 22:[19] "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Jesus is the complete Living Word of God. And if any one takes away what He did at the Cross, God shall take away his part out of the book of Life. No one comes to the Father except through the Son, who proclaimed, "It is finished".

Those who continue to boast in a gospel of self-righteousness which Paul said is NOT the gospel, you might want to read Gal 3:10 carefully, "For as many as are of the WORKS OF THE LAW ARE UNDER THE CURSE." The curses are listed in Deut 28, which includes sickness, poverty, blindness, cannabalism, and much terror.

That's right, the bible says you are living under the curse if you insist on your self-righteousness as your salvation.

To those who boast in their ability to keep the 10 Commandment as their righteousness before God, Jesus said if you lust in your heart, you have committed adultery; if you are angry against another, you have committed murder. Would you like God to judge you based on your secret sins? David said, "Lord, if you mark our iniquity, who can stand before you?"

If you are angry with those who trust in grace, have you not committed murder in your hearts and broken the Law which you claim to keep?

Ultimately, this is not about who is right; it's about how we esteem Jesus, the Son of the Living God and whether we esteem His finished work for us on the Cross to give us His abundant life and blessings with the Father.

The Lord bless you richly and prosper you.

4/5/07 8:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quoting 4/5/07 7:58 AM,

"Like people who are taken up by heretic Joseph Prince:
1. Justification without sanctification through Jesus Christ."

Dear brother/sister Anonymous:
ANSWER: 1 COR 1:30, 31 - But of HIM YOU ARE IN CHRIST JESUS, who BECAME FOR US WISDOM FROM GOD - and RIGHTEOUSNESS AND SANCTIFICATION AND REDEMPTION - that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him GLORY IN THE LORD." Notice we are not to glory in ourselves in all those things listed in the verses?

In Christ, we have already been sanctified. "Sanctified" means "set apart". You can look it up in Bible Concordance/ dictionary. God sanctified/ set us apart when He put us in Christ when we were born again. The verse says clearly it is GOD who did it, not Man (our human effort).

JUSTIFICATION - Justification = Righteous/ Made Right. Again, you may look it up in Bible Concordance.

2 Cor 5:21 - For HE (God) made Him (Christ) who knew no sin to be sin for us, that WE might become the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM. (i.e. we become JUSTIFIED)

Again, justification was given to us by God's grace. Our righteousness is IN HIM, not in ourselves. Don't choke on it - God is that good. He does all these things for us because He knows we will never make it for salvation otherwise.

Whether redemption, justification, sanctification or anything you desire, God has freely given them ALL to us by grace. We humble ourselves before God by simply receiving from Him, not resisting Him and His gifts.

Quoting:
"2. Deny blatantly the verse which appear unpleasant for Christian practical life in the Lord's Prayer - "Forgive our debts as we forgive our debtors." It is fearful that self-righteousness causes the denial of this truth taught by Jesus Christ. There is no need of confession of sins, so Prince taught. "Christ died for us whose blood cleanses us from all sins.We are justified." Those who bear the marks of our wonderful Saviour Jesus Christ receive the blood for cleansing by faith. As the result of being justified, they confess their sins to God which is a sweet and wonderful exercise. Confession of sins will not justify their sins where Christ righteousness justify only. But our Lord made confession of sin so wonderful that TO KNOW THAT WE ARE PARDON is the joy and peace that pass understanding that the world knows nothing about."

Dear brother/sister Anonymous,
ANSWER: Eph 1:7, 8 - In Him we HAVE redepmtion through His blood, the FORGIVENESS OF SINS, ACCORDING TO THE RICHES OF HIS GRACE, which HE made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence."

If you wish to constantly ask God for forgiveness, it is your personal habit but it is NOT New Testament doctrine. The bible says WE HAVE FORGIVENESS, already given when Christ died, NOT when we confess.

New Testatment (AFTER Christ's resurrection) doctrine does NOT teach confession of sins. It teaches confession of sin (one sin only) when we receive Christ.

Why is it important to differentiate between before or after the resurrection? Because all who are born again are born in CHRIST, the resurrected Lord. Our salvation is based on His Cross, death and resurrection; the Church is His resurrected body. Before the Cross, people were NOT yet forgiven, the church was NOT yet form, people were NOT yet born again.

Notice also we who are born again are called "in CHRIST" and not "in Jesus"? It's important we believe that God has changed everything completely by the Cross and Resurrection or else Christ has died for us in vain.

References: John 16: 7 - 15, Jesus spoke of the ministry of the Holy Spirit after His resurrection. Notice:
v 8 - And when He has come, He will convict the world of SIN (not sins), and of RIGHTEOUSNESS, and of JUDGEMENT
v 9 - of SIN, because they do not believe in Me (notice it's only one sin, not many sins? what sin is this? why did Jesus say only one sin? Because all our sins have been taken away by the Lamb of God. The only sin left is unbelief in His death and resurrection and that's the sin we confess when we say the 'sinner's prayer'.)
v 10 - of righteousness (justification) because I go to My Father (resurrection) and you see Me no more
v 11 - of judgement (who is judged? God's children?) because the RULER OF THIS WORLD (satan) is judged.
v 12 - I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them (understand) now

The Gospel of Christ begins AFTER the resurrection and Paul was given the revelation of the Gospel (Gal 1:1-9) to preach to the Gentile world. In his writings, the Holy Spirit inspired him to write things like 'we have redemption', 'we have forgiveness', 'grace be with you', 'grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ', 'O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?"

Notice what Paul says is obeying the truth? It's seeing Jesus Christ crucified, which gives us forgiveness, redemption, justification/ righteousness, sanctification, holiness, and much, much more.

Paul does not preach the gospel apart from the resurrection. In fact, you may notice that Paul does not quote Jesus' words from Matt, Mark, Luke or John. Why?

Because our salvation is based on Resurrection. The words that Jesus speaks AFTER His resurrection is given through Paul, who is sent to and for the church. Today, we GIVE THANKS for our eternal forgiveness.

Beloved Anonymous, all this is not to argue with you. Check out the verses for yourself, that your trust may be completely in the Lord and not in man's words.

May you receive revelation of Christ crucified and the complete forgiveness you already have now through your Saviour in His death, burial and resurrection for you, that you may be filled with the fulness of God.

May you be rooted and grounded in His love, demonstrated in the gift of His Son on the Cross, who cried, "It is finished", and was raised for our justification.

Amen.

5/5/07 11:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 5/5/07 11:19 AM
You have not grown in faith but have been running around in the circle of justification by faith.

No wonder so many, so many of the New Creation people are found impenitent in gambling, and loving the world so insatiably apart from the leaders. Even so have I known some were unabashed gamblers in bettings, cards etc and inordinate drinkers.

Don't Mr. Princy ever taught how a justified person ought to live a Christlike and self-denying life in this world? Mr. Princy as a good example of Christ His Saviour.

From the beginning of your comment to the end, you keep on argueing on justification by faith through grace. Do you have any thing for a Christian living after being saved by grace alone? You have been justified, do you still need to be fed with justification messages still. Justification is once and for all but sanctification is a Christian life process through the Word of God (John17:17)with the grace of the Holy Spirit. Glorification is life after this temporal end.

What if a Christian sinned? Of course, he is forgiven as a saved person, a justified person but he needs to confess and repent of his sin before God through Christ, not for justification because he is already justified but for sanctification as he overcomes sins and live righteously THROUGH CHRIST.

I am appalled by your whole comment taken up in justification.
Galatian's problem was introducing the law for justificatiion but I say nothing about the Law of God or self righteousness for justification; but the law of God for a JUSTIFIED person is good. It is only a JUSTIFIED person in Christ can look at the law of God with delight because the commandment is pure, good and enlightening the eyes. The Law of God cannot condemn a JUSTIFIED person but teach him to avoid sin. This is how the Spirit of God makes a JUSTIFIED person delight in the Whole Counsel of God including God's Law. The Commandment of God is not grevious but joyous.

Mr. Anonymous, you are 'good' at the doctrine of Justification by faith but you have conveniently denied the Christian life of sanctification because you call it a bewitching teaching quoting Galatian 4:1 out of context. You convenient stuffed two doctrines into one bag of teachinG CONFOUNDING yourself of the two doctrines as one.

Sanctification - set apart for who and for what?
Set apart for HOLY life and for God through Christ! Be ye holy for I am holy! God said - in the New Testament
For this is the will of God even your sanctification. Whose sanctification? Christ sanctification on your behalf? Nay YOUR sanctification. By the Word of God and the Holy Spirit's power upon our lives, OUR LIVES as a justified person should be sanctified through Christ PROGRESSIVELY.
Justification is All of Grace (JUSTIFIED)
Sanctification is our life in grace(PROGRESSIVE HOLINESS)with the help of the Holy Spirit. Walk in the Spirit not to fulfil the lust of the flesh. Be fill with the Spirit not in excess of wine.

Your comments are FAULTY. You have been misled in the doctrines of justification and sanctification. When you do not get the Holy Communion right, you will not get the doctrine of confession of sins right. Consequently, you need to cover the doctrine of sanctification with the doctrine of justification. You obliterate Christian sanctification hence no confession of sin after being justified. If this is the case, you will see many strange fruits from your vine -impenitent and unrenewed "Christians". You can't get these right, you will raise up many little "Christians" who never struggle against sins, whose old man is not replaced by the New man.

It is frightening as time progresses, the people in the Christian assembly get bolder and bolder to sin. The gospel and Christ you are propagating only touch on salvation but nothing of Christian living against the world sin and satan. Frightening declension and digression from the sound faith and doctrine which cannot be condemned.

To Christ Jesus only be honoured glorified and magnified till He comes again. Anathema Maranatha!
Amen.

11/5/07 1:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interestingly, for certain there is a spiritual battle raging here in this blog.

Incidently, Joseph Prince is not an Eurasian or a Westerner. I wonder why he changed his name from Mr. Singh to Mr. Prince. Am I a racist to make this true statement? No, contrariwise, I have good Singh friends. They are strong character people. I regard them much. But to each his own, we should not deny our racial origin. Some of the most challenging Christian books were written by and about Christians in Punjab, i.e. Sadhu Sunda Singh, Bakh Singh etc. These Christians did not change their names to dishonour their genealogy. Christianity does not dishonour the genealogy of its converts. Our Lord Jesus Christ has His genealogy written in Matthew. He did not deny His earthly genealogy as Man. Prince/Singh may have his personal reason he is entitled to?!

Could this consequent in the heresy of healing through Holy
Communion?

12/5/07 11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Worldliness is one of the main causes of deviation of doctrines and healing through the Holy Communion is one. Worldly pastors and leaders are dominating huge Churches. How could they not propagate health, wealth and riches when they themselves are indulging and amessing fortunes from the church like Jimmy Swaggart?

Today, we have few Moses' like leaders: "Refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter" (Prince).

12/5/07 11:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is not a discussion of individuals or churches, but the Word of God alone, which is our only and final authority.

James 2:10, 11 "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and YET STUMBLE IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL. For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, YOU HAVE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW.

According to God's Word, if you break one commandment, you have broken the whole 10. Therefore, if you do not gamble, but hate in your heart, God considers you be a gambler, adulterer, liar, etc, because in His eyes, you have broken the whole 10 Commandment, not just the one about not gambling. If you do not covet but told a lie, according to God, this means He sees you as:
1. you have other gods before Him
2. you made for yourself a carved image
3. you took the name of the Lord in vain
4. you did not keep the sabbath holy
5. you did not honour your father and your mother
6. you have committed murder
7. you have committed adultery
8. you are a thief
9. you bore false witness against your neighbour
10. you coveted

God does not give the 10 commandment as individual commandment, but as one complete, composite whole. You broke one, you have broken all 10.

This is the severity of God's holiness.

Those who believe in sanctification and justification through works / the law, they are ignorant about how high God's standards are and how weak and evil their flesh is against this divine holiness. In effect, they honour themselves and despise God's 10 Commandments because they think God's law can be lowered to suit their human standards.

That's what the Pharisees thought about themselves in Jesus' day - they thought the 10 Commandments was something they could do for show but Jesus exposed them to how demanding and perfect God's holiness is; He NEVER makes exception about the Commandments. Therefore, if you have anger, God counts it as murder; if you lust, God counts it as adultery.

Paul's letters to the Church, God's people in Christ, always urged them to trust in God's grace because apart from grace, there is no hope for anyone.

1. Rom 6:14 - For sin shall NOT have dominion over you, for you ARE NOT UNDER LAW but under grace.

2. Rom 10:4 - For Christ IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to everyone who believes.

3. 1 Cor 15:56, 57 - The sting of death is sin, and the STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.

4. Gal 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified BY FAITH in Christ and NOT THE WORKS OF THE LAW; FOR BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW NO FLESH SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

5. Gal 2:21 - I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.

6. Gal 3:11, 12 - But that NO ONE is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." Yet THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH, but "the man who does them shall live by them."

7. Gal 5:4 - For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from grace.

Was God kidding, asking us to trust in what His Son has done? And according to God's Word, we live holy, sanctified lives when we trust in grace; not when we trust in our ability to keep the 10 Commandment.

Jesus said unless we humble ourselves as little children, we cannot receive from Him. If we claim to love God, then we will also honour His perfect holiness and thus the need for the sacrifice He made for us on the Cross when His Son was nailed there to give us His righteousness as a gift. (2 Cor 5:21) Of course, if we love ourselves more than we love God and His Son, we will despise His grace because it requires us to humble ourselves and admit to God we cannot keep His holy commandments at all.

12/5/07 7:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Anonymous 12/5/07 7:44 PM

We listen to the message first, then we look at the life of the preacher. We try to see the pastor's life in relation to what Jesus has said: "deny himself + take up the cross and follow me." It will be almost blasphemous to say: "Be blessed with riches and take up good health and follow me". We look for Christlikeness in the lives of pastors who preach the Kingdom of God.

1.All the paragraphs of your writing up to: THE SEVERITY OF GOD'S HOLINESS I FULLY AGREE!

It cannot be better written than what are written here. Indeed, in justification, the Law of God is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.

Hence,preaching the Law is essential(Romans 7:7) to bring us to Christ (From Law to Grace). Law is useful as a school master to bring us to Christ. No preaching of the Law, no fleeing to Christ. Well written and well said - the Severity of God in Holiness.

Thunder and lightning (Judgment of God's Law against unbelief) will send us fleeing to the quiet Repose even Christ.

Today's Gospel is short of the schoolmaster. Mr. Prince has no schoolmaster but all Nice. Read the Acts of the Apostles and see how the Schoolmaster had been handled that thousands were genuinely converted. Read the Apostles' Peter, John and Paul's preaching the Gospel which is not separated from the Schoolmaster because it is necessary to drive souls to Christ. Joseph Prince discarded the Schoolmaster and preached an another gospel.

2. You wrote: "Those who believe in sanctification and justification through works / the law, they are ignorant about how high God's standards are and how weak and evil their flesh is against this divine holiness. In effect, they honour themselves and despise God's 10 Commandments because they think God's law can be lowered to suit their human standards."

I have not written anything about justification and sanctification through works/Law.

This is my comment:Justification is ALL OF Grace (JUSTIFIED)
Sanctification is our life IN GRACE(PROGRESSIVE HOLINESS). Where have I mentioned an iota of work?

Justification by faith through Grace. Sanctification by faith of the Word in grace. John 17:17 (Sanctify them through Thy truth, Thy Word is truth.)The Word of God is the means of sanctification. The Word of God here is all encompassing the WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD - God's statutes, precepts, counsels law and all of the Bible!
I said nothing about our ability to be sanctified. Our life must be sanctified progressively in grace. When sin is overcome, we thank God that it is grace, yes, God worketh in us to do his will and good pleasure.

Now you start to talk about the grace of sanctification in a believers' life. This is denied by many writers here in this blog, almost including you. When you are justifed, you will talk about sanctified. We then can rejoice in glorification as the final state of our redemption.

13/5/07 1:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When a person writes too much about health and wealth, it may ended up with bad teachings -healing through the Holy Communion.

Since health and wealth are so important, should New Creation Church be more transparent of the offerings received to be make known to every member, income/expenditure account etc.annually? I think we have the right to know because we make the offerings to God. Whatever it is expended should be make known publicly.

13/5/07 8:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hallelujah!! Today, Pastor Prince preached an awesome, anointed message on the Health and Healing Through the Holy Communion.

It was a powerful message. Go get it and be blessed.

Hallelujah!!! God is a good, good God. Praise you, Daddy God.

13/5/07 3:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello anonymous 13/5/07 3:49 PM

No matter what kind of erratic frenzy you masquerade with - a heresy is a heresy.

Still the truth remains "healing through the Holy Communion is a heresy".

13/5/07 11:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the Bible I cannot find the word "Daddy". Prince/Singh took it from the Christian nursery Bible School. Those who use it, sound like babies - This is a childish "faith" not childlike.

1Corinthians 13:11
"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

It is beneficial to Prince/Singh if your "faith" is a childish faith. Now you just listen to him quoting what is not in the Scripture and you like to use it too. You are so much in bondage to Prince/Singh. You mimic him... DaddyDaddyDaddy Da Da God.. what dishonouring abomination! It is wickedness to bring God down to Da Da and lift Prince up with wah! "awesome message!" You guys have a lot to answer for.

Hero worship is idolatry!

14/5/07 1:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

True news! I was told when Prince arrived in Suntec, there are many bodyguards to make sure that none come close to him. Is it a king? No. Is it a prince? His name. Is it a celebrity? Nop. Is it a politician? Nah. It is a "pastor" who come in an ass colt; no, wrong, in a BMW. Oops, typing error? Nay. It is a BMW. His writings justify him for a BMW -self-justification.

1. Our Lord was not like that.
2. The Apostles were not like that though they were manhandled and even killed.
3. The early Christians were not like that.
4. The persecuted medieval Christians were not like that.
5. John Wesley was not like that.
6. Charles Spurgeon was not like that.
7. Faithful Christians are not opportunists.

Am I jealous to say all these? Nay. But I pity the simpletons who offer services to man and not to God. I am disgusted to see the hypocrisy of religious leaders taking the advantage of simpletons.

I think he enjoys being treated like a VIP for the fear of RIP. And you are giving him UNBIBLICAL treatment. No wonder he is so happy and tell every body to be happy. He is materially comfortable through the givings of ordinary wage earners and he is lavishing them away. 10% of total collection, how much huh? This kind of life for pastors is not uncommon in big churches in the U.S. and time will tell their fall.

These hard earned money could be used on the Lord Jesus in many homes, institutions and ministries instead of BMWs, Condo, etc. You slog so hard and he spend so much. All false religious leaders will receive double damnation. No wonder he talks so much about health, healing and wealth. How many of you, supporters have a condo and BMW? You, not God make rich but who will make you rich?

Well said by one, let the church administration of New Creation be more transparent.

Prince preaches for high income (blessings and success) but lower morals (liberty from bondage), for fancier houses but broken homes, for health of years but no life for years. All these are the result of corrupted healing through Holy Communion and others.

14/5/07 11:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Addressing to Anonymous 13/5/07 3:49 PM

"Pastor Prince preached awesome...message...God is good. Daddy God"

Judge yourself.
Human fanaticism.

14/5/07 11:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Psalm 118:
[8] It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
[9] It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

18/5/07 7:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My nephew-in-law's wife is 5 years in NCC. She bugs him to give 10% of his income to NCC every month. But he is an unbeliever. The way the NCC teaches members to tithe is terribly fierce. True grace tells us that giving is spontaneous not to be forced upon. Who is in bondage and who is in liberty? Who is in true grace and who is in carnality?

21/5/07 9:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...
My nephew-in-law's wife is 5 years in NCC. She bugs him to give 10% of his income to NCC every month. But he is an unbeliever. The way the NCC teaches members to tithe is terribly fierce. True grace tells us that giving is spontaneous not to be forced upon. Who is in bondage and who is in liberty? Who is in true grace and who is in carnality?

21/5/07 9:41 PM


The above statement is a lie. Absolute BS. It is From the devil and pits of hell ..for sure.

I have been in NCC for many years (over 15) and there is not a time that I am forced or compelled to give or tithe. It is a lie. In fact, my previous church has a 15 minutes begging sermons when it comes to giving time.

In NCC, there is almost zero sermon on tithing or giving. Maybe once a year or once every 2 years. Unlike a lot of churches.. always begging.. ministers behaving more like beggars rather than children of God.

Concerning communion, I will say to each his own. If we see miracles and received healing thru communion, then it is good for us. As for those who oppose it so be it. Let all your health and healing that you reject come on us, since u reject the goodness and kindness of God all the time through your religiosity. Same pharisees are still around. Having a form of godliness, but NO POWER.

Ignorant and religious people spent a lot of time criticising and fault finding.. not knowing the move of God. So my suggestion is do not knock down another minister.

If you think your pastor is so hot and his doctrine so sound, more power to you. Promote him. As for us, we are glad that we are in NCC,where miracles and good things happen all the time without fuss nor self effort.

The goal of christian life is not to knock down, even other religion. It is to promote Jesus, his goodness and finished work. Why spent so much time tearing others down when we have so much of Jesus to discover and share ?? strange... these religious creatures..

29/5/07 4:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh..btw, for those who criticise NCC on being a prosperity cult and forcing its members to give.. it is really amazing that there is no link on NCC's website asking for donation , giving and tithing unlike a lot of churches.. they are so hard up for money and they make sure that there is a link for giving or donations, so that visitor to the site will not miss it..

29/5/07 4:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 29/5/07 4:27 AM said:

"I have been in NCC for many years (over 15) and there is not a time that I am forced or compelled to give or tithe. It is a lie. In fact, MY PREVIOUS CHURCH HAS A 15 MINUTES BEGGING SERMONS WHEN IT COMES TO GIVING TIME.

In NCC, there is almost zero sermon on tithing or giving. Maybe once a year or once every 2 years. UNLIKE A LOT OF CHURCHES.. ALWAYS BEGGING.. MINISTERS BEHAVING MORE LIKE BEGGARS RATHER THAN CHILDREN OF GOD.....

THE GOAL OF CHRISTIAN LIFE IS NOT TO KNOCK DOWN, even other religion. It is to promote Jesus, his goodness and finished work. Why spent so much time tearing others down when we have so much of Jesus to discover and share ?? strange... these religious creatures.."

DO YOU SEE THE DECEPTION YOU ARE IN WITH NCC WITH YOUR OWN WORDS?

PLINZ MAY NOT BEG DIRECTLY BUT IN PUBLISHING BOOKS USING RELIGION FOR WEALTH AND HEALTH IS INDIRECTLY PROMPTING IN HEATHEN WAY OF DONATIONS. IF THE PUBLISHED BOOKS RELATING TO HEALTH AND WEALTH HAVE 100,000 COPIES PRINTED, HE HAS PREACHED 100,000 TIMES (Do I say he is a 100,000 times beggar?). PLUS HIS TEACHERS PROMOTE IT IN VARIOUS CELL GROUPS. THEY MAKE IT EASY FOR HIM.

Heresy is deviation/perversion in the name of religion. Healing and wholeness in Holy Communion is TOTALLY unbiblical based and perversion, hence HERESY, my friend.

Look it in a this manner - This blog is meant for Plinz to change his mind of this errorneous doctrine. If it is not serious, we have better things to do than all these. I am not the blog writer but I support him to honour the Lord Jesus because he dares to be different for the Lord Jesus sake. "God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;" 1 Cor 1:27 - Truth not popularity. Quality not quantity. Spirituality not carnality, dear friend.

1/6/07 7:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is true of every word that my nephew-in-law is bugged by his wife (From NCC) to give 10% of his income to NCC. He is an unbeliever. This is not a lie, nor from the pit of hell, but the abbrev. "BS" is definitely from the PIT OF HELL. Talking about grace, your words are worse than legalism - carnally vulgar. Aren't you ashame - 15 years in NCC and from the NCC, with this kind of testimony publicly - the more you write the more you show yourself what false grace is - licensing vularity. May the Lord have mercy on you.

1/6/07 8:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is terrible. The more you write the worse you get. 15 years in NCC, what have you been doing, with such vulgar writing "BS" in the name of NCC and another who quote: "Btw"(what is this? Anybody's guess.) We felt sorry for you both if you don't for yourself.

1/6/07 8:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I read the fall of Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard ministries etc.. It is alarming. I think NCC must be more transparent in things related to all funds.

2/6/07 6:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"btw" could possibly means "by the Way" but "BS" is bad.

3/6/07 9:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hope the authority will look into the accounts of NCC. With the kind of TT Dorai's attitude prevailing in the modern world, who knows what could be up in anybody's sleaves? Good Christians are at times too spiritual to look into the accounts of the church. If pastors are clean, self-denying and selfless, it is better for the congregation.

But healing and wholeness in the holy communion is a lie. Self- fabricated doctrine to get people to come for the weekly holy communion. Could this be the ploy of JP for people to come weekly? Because of the need to be healed and whole in JP's holy communion.

If to believe in Christ Jesus is whole and complete, do you need NCC pastors especially JP to conduct Holy Communion for believer's wholeness and healing?

The attention to Jesus Christ our Lord is shifted subtilely to J.P. in the Holy Communion with his doctrine. It is a subtle way of saying you must attend JP's worship if you want healing and wholeness by and through his holy communion.

3/6/07 9:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

wow Mr Anonymous who posted on 3/6/07... you should really attend NCC for ONE service. your post is based soley on what you're reading on this one blog. and you can form your basis of arguments and start spreading vicious rumours about men of God.

for the author of this blog, you seem like a very bitter person. does digging into the doctrines of the more well known pastors in singapore make you a happier person? what do you belive then? why don't u start a church of your own then?

15/7/07 10:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reply to Anynymous 15/7/07 10:36 PM

1. In handling polemical subjects, there is no bitterness but soundness and clear refutation and reproof - i.e. healing, wholeness and health through the Holy Communion is a big lie.This doctrine is like the Roman Catholic doctrines of transubstantiation that robs the glory of Christ and exalt the glory of the priest who conducts it.

2."wow Mr Anonymous who posted on 3/6/07... you should really attend NCC for ONE service."

How do you know I have not attended ONE service or services? He who preaches Christ in heresy has preached another Christ.


3. You said: "your post is based soley on what you're reading on this one blog."
Wrong, my friend, I have read JP's books and heard man-pleasing sermons of Mr. Nice (JP) in a form of Christ but not the BIBLE CHRIST.

4.You said, "and you can form your basis of arguments and start spreading vicious rumours about men of God."

Rumours are based on lies but when it is objectively taken up from the books that he JP wrote and the sermons which he preached, THESE ARE NO RUMOURS!

He is not among the "men of God" but THE MAN OF THE WORLD who slyly takes 10% of the offerings! He is a businessman in the cloak of Christianity. May I remind you of TT Durai in the cloak of Charity.
The Biblical teaching of a disciple of Christ, a man of God is
"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him DENY HIMSELF, and TAKE UP HIS CROSS, and FOLLOW ME." Matthew 16:24.
But JP said "Behold My Wagon" and "be healthy and wealthy" and "follow the world"!

Judge yourself.

19/7/07 8:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow... this is 7 sept 2007
World War III began so soon..
NCC vs CHC vs NCC vs CHC
The devil must be pretty happy over this....
Christian vs Christian calling one a heresy teaching.. names calling etc..

Let see...
I went to Benny Hinn's Service which was largely organised by CHC.

In Benny's preaching, he was preaching about Healing in the Holy Communion - very much alike from Prince, , if we can accept Benny's preaching on this Communion Healing thing, why should we say Prince preaching on Healing on the Communion is heretic? I've checked and both pastors are preaching the same thing on the same context.

Another one from Benny. He was preaching on the Brazen Serpent, where the Israelites in the wondering desert got bitten by poisonous snakes, they were commanded by God to look at the Brazen Serpent which is Christ to come hanged on the Cross. When they looked, they were heal and not die. Similiarly when we look unto Jesus. This message was also preached by Prince years ago, but a big revelation for others.

As far as I know, my NCC friends do not go around living in sins, gamble, drink till drunk etc,

On the other end, some of the chc pals would unknowingly raised their eyebrow in protest on a casual mentioned of NCC.

When Joyce Meyer came to town recently at CHC (2007) her message brought much needed relieved, her message is too similiar to Prince like Resting in the Lord, Wisdom is already in us, Rest in Him and it will flow out, very similiar to Prince.

I even bought Joyce Meyer CD message, As I listened I was puzzled the whole message on Grace by Joyce Meyer is too similiar to Prince's version, and yet it is selling at CHC counter.

What I understand on Prince message is that it will draw you to Jesus and His goodness and mercy, a deeper understand and love for Jesus.

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, it is Christ who now lives in us, to those who are believers. His blood has made us 100% acceptable to God. No longer do we need yearly sprinkling of animal blood to cleanse us. Christ die once and for all, and when you were not even born. Christ blood has made it possible for the Holy Spirit to dwell in us, because His shedding of His Blood has made you acceptable and Holy to God.

On Ps Kong's message recent sermon on the mount. I noted Kong's otherwise good sermon; twisted and misrepresented Prince's teaching and quoted alot not from the bible but from men long dead.. like Martin Luther etc, to justify.

One thing for sure, Prince do not promote living in sins or license to sins, or gambling etc, somehow Kong did not mentioned these...

Let's not get ugly here. My prayer is there would be a big hand-shake between Kong and Prince, and Price once stood in his ncc congregation to protect Kong's wife, Sun from media attack.

Just my thoughts... hope no chc members will flame me for my frank comment on Kong, remember chc, Kong ain't your god, Jesus is. and neither is Prince ncc's revered god.

Check out the fact, guys from chc. Is ncc members living in sins? Does Prince teaching promote living in sins, and chc do not have any members who is not right living with the Lord?

I rest my case... hope it is helpful.

7/9/07 1:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Benny Hinn recently in Singapore 2007, preach about Healing in Holy Communion too.
Does that make Benny Hinn a heresy preacher too??

12/9/07 8:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Before I proceed, let me clarify that I am not the writer who wrote "BS" on the past few comments. Perhaps, the writer should write in full instead of short-form preventing any dispute. BS = Blank Statement.

When I look at the cross, I see GRACE and LOVE reaching for me.

How about you?

Shalom,
Jason Tan

13/9/07 12:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Jason Tan,

If you are not the writer of the BS, then you are presumptuously defending him/her. You cannot and do not qualify to answer. It only shows you that you are biasly defending.

When I look at the cross, I see the Justice of God in judgment, the Grace of God to pardon, the Love of God to save and the Zeal of God in Holiness. Nay, I see the manifestation of all the attributes of God at Calvary where the Son of God, my Saviour died!

Give a little more prayerful thought to this.

19/9/07 10:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reply to:
Benny Hinn recently in Singapore 2007, preach about Healing in Holy Communion too.
Does that make Benny Hinn a heresy preacher too??

12/9/07 8:10 AM

Who is Benny Hinn? Who is Joseph P.? Who is Ted Haggard? I know only One, Jesus Christ, my Lord and my God! In His Word - 1 Corinthians 11: 23-34 tells all.Where is healing through the Holy Communion?

You guys worship "heroes" more than worshipping God. If you are of God you will hear His Word - Jesus said.

19/9/07 8:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Qoute:

Reply to:
Benny Hinn recently in Singapore 2007, preach about Healing in Holy Communion too.
Does that make Benny Hinn a heresy preacher too??

12/9/07 8:10 AM

Who is Benny Hinn? Who is Joseph P.? Who is Ted Haggard? I know only One, Jesus Christ, my Lord and my God! In His Word - 1 Corinthians 11: 23-34 tells all.Where is healing through the Holy Communion?

You guys worship "heroes" more than worshipping God. If you are of God you will hear His Word -
Jesus said.

Un-Quote:

Jesus should be the focus of our life, He is our Saviour and Lord.

He died on the cross as a broken man and bleed for all mankind. Focus on HIM. He is the answer to our life.

1Cr 11:24
And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

"this is my body. which is broken for you:"

Jesus body was broken for you so that you can have an unbroken body.
illness, depression, failure, suicider, all manner of sickness deseases etc etc etc. Jesus has taken care of it ALL on HIS broken body.

"this do in remembrance of me."

When you take part-take the bread and remembering HIS goodness and His broken body for you... That HE has paid all on HIS broken body so that you are HEALED by the Stripes of JESUS. Hallelujah.

I love Jesus... for HE 1st LOVE mE.

8/10/07 8:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reply to anonymous 8/10/07 8:05 AM

What elusive, deviating, perverted and corrupted ways of wheeling with the doctrine of the ordinance of the Holy Communion!

1. Your focus is a cover up hero worshipping of JP. JP, others and you are more than 2,000 years too late to have "discovered the doctrine of health, healing and wholeness through the holy communion." If you love the Lord, you will not misinterpret His Words. "THIS DO IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME." means simply that.

2.You said and emphasized:
Quote:

"Jesus body was broken for you so that YOU CAN HAVE AN UNBROKEN BODY
illness, depression, failure, suicider, all manner of sickness deseases etc etc etc. Jesus has taken care of it ALL on HIS broken body."

Unquote.

WHO ARE YOU KIDDING? Thousands of Christians are sick everyday, visiting clinics and hospitals for flu, common colds, or even life threatening diseases etc. and etc. I am sure you do the same. You are just one step away from believing that you can have immortality from your "faith" in this sinful earth.

You are not realizing how many people you have deceived and caused them to get worse in their sickness without seeking for medical aid. You tell them to trust in the Holy Communion. Your pastor performed "miracles" etc. And God is Daddy, Daddy, da da!

I had a friend, Pat L. went two years seeking scarcely for medical aid in his lympho leukemia trusting "faith" and holy communions could heal him. When he seek seriously for medical treatment - stage too advance - too late, He died.

Pat. L. said to me before his death: They told me I am healed, but I know I am not. I have been running around looking forward to be healed than to seek medical attention. I believe them because I would not want to embarrass them. Now I know I must trust only in JESUS. He has comforted me, wonderfully. I know I shall see Him and be with Him forever. I am contented. This is His healing than physical.

Another friend of mine a Christian, John C. whose wife(a Christian) was having problems on the left eye last year Oct. 2006. She went for healing and attended many holy communions. She was told that her eye was healed. I met them in June this year at the Eye Centre of TTSH. Doc said that it was too late, her left eye retina was totally detached by the untreated tears. Of course it can be treated by surgery but not by faith-healers and holy communions. Who is responsible for this?

3. You do not know the consequences and the severity of your false doctrines and statements. With such, you give people false hope, self-fabricated promises (misquoting, misinterpreting from the Bible) and left them to face their dilemma. Onlookers look with astonishment thinking that it is healed.

But I am happy to have my conscience purged by His blood from dead works to serve the living God, my heart is cleansed my soul's guilt is healed, and the unhealthy sins forgiven! Through my Lord Jesus Christ alone, I am spiritually healthy, wealthy and whole because of His forgiveness, cleansing and and removing of all my sins which the Blood of my Lord Jesus and the Body of my Lord Jesus are commemorated in the Holy Communion. He reminds me of my sins being washed away by His precious blood and all of my sins were judged on His body which was broken for me.

4. Our generation of Christians believe in the god of utility and the god of this world than the Sovereign God. You make God your servant and your slave than your Father. Healings, health, wealth and wholeness, are these all you cared for? Covetousness is idolatry. More remuneration, more intakes of offerings(wow, this month is more than the last, thank God), more secular investments, luxurious cars, luxurious condos, luxurious life,and etc. will make the church rich, grand and famous? What kind of signal are you giving to our young people, by propagating branded car (Behold My Wagon) and luxurious condos?

O Laodiceans! O Laodiceans! You don't even know how spiritually bankrupt you are?!

10/10/07 2:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

=)
why don't you ask Pastor Prince about all the doubts that you had pointed out?
if you nv even ask the person himself, how can you just assume and conclude thats how he thinks?

have you listened to all his sermons? :))

he has nothing to boast about anw.. none of Pastor Prince, all of Jesus. :)

11/10/07 12:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Because you can ask him yourself.
;-)

I have no access to a prince ;-)
I can't get through his bodyguards and his condo security. But I can get to Christ Jesus my Lord.
Can you? ;-)
Please don't reply ridiculously but objectively.

11/10/07 2:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reply again to Anonymous
11/10/07 12:24 PM

You said:
Quote
"he has nothing to boast about anw.. none of Pastor Prince, all of Jesus. :)
Unquote

This is right. :)
Let us, by God's grace, look and go unto Him (our Lord Jesus) the Author and Finisher of our faith.

Galatian 1:
[10] For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
[11] But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

13/10/07 7:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Having been a Christian all my life, it was only when I started to attend NCC (since 4 mths ago) that I began to feel the love and grace of our heavenly father and the holy spirit taking over my life, living in my heart, mind and soul.Like many others, I used to be very skeptical about NCC before I started attending , but now, I can fully appreciate why it is attracting the crowds week after week.I simply cannot deny how the weekly sermons delivered by Pastor Prince has infiltrated my life, working wonders to my soul. What is joy and happiness anyway...for me, it's having peace in my mind and love in my heart. Like what Pastor Prince always reminds us, Jesus wants us to be at rest. And for us to receive God's abundant grace, we must first have faith and let the holy spirit live in us. I have personally experienced this and thank God for anointing Pastor Prince and how blessed we are in Singapore to be able to listen to the these divine relevations live every Sunday! At the lowest point in my life, God had restored me; when I felt lost, and had spoken to him in prayer, the holy spirit had guided me. Thanks be to God, Amen.

5/11/07 9:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous 5/11/07 9:23 AM

What you have experienced are not uncommon in all other churches which preaches the Gospel. 30 years ago, I have experienced the justice of God demands, the love of Christ fulfilled that judgment of God and the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ saves me from the hell-bound and sinful life. The Holy Spirit taught me in repentance unto life through Jesus Christ my Lord. I have been living in the peace of God for 30 years and till I return to glory in God's will. The Son of God loves me and gave Himself for me. Where was JP then?

Your "good", subjective and emotional experiences do not change the objective view in the doctrinal heresy of "healing and WHOLENESS through the Holy Communion." That WHOLENESS through the Holy Communion robs the glory of the WHOLENESS through the Lord Jesus Christ. Consequently, it robs the glory of God. ONLY BY BELIEVING IN J E S U S MAKES US WHOLE!

There is no wholeness through human conducted holy communions. Elsewise's wholeness is an imposter. The Holy Communion is at best one of the two Ordinances in the church of Jesus Christ but not wholeness. If wholeness is through Holy Communion, you do not need Christ anymore. As for me, you can have as many "wholeness Holy Communions" as you want, but I will only have my Lord and my God even Jesus Christ my Saviour and honour Him in observing His Ordinances.

My prayer for you is "GOD HELP YOU TO SEARCH AND STUDY THE WHOLE SCRIPTURES than to search your feelings and emotions."

6/11/07 6:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In reply to Anonymous 5/11/07 9:23 AM
You wrote:
"I used to be very skeptical about NCC before I started attending , but now, I can fully appreciate why it is attracting the crowds week after week."

It is sad that all the years "Having being a Christian all your life," that your understanding of the Scripture is appallingly like a simpleton, that should go after feelings than sound faith.

1. This is not a matter of skepticism but heresy.
2. If crowd is your appreciation, there are more than multitudes outside Christ.

You wrote again:
"What is joy and happiness anyway...for me, it's having peace in my mind and love in my heart. Like what Pastor Prince always reminds us, Jesus wants us to be at rest."

Not all peace in the mind are Biblical peace not all love in the heart are Biblical love.

1.False peace of false prophets:THE DEVIL'S PEACE
Jeremiah 6:
[13] For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to COVETOUSNESS; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
[14] They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.
[15] Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.

True Peace of Christ:
JOHN 14:
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
[27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: NOT AS THE WORLD GIVETH, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

JOHN 16:
[33] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Christ's peace is not from the world.

False rest and ungodly prosperity
Daniel 4:
[4] I Nebuchadnezzar was at rest in mine house, and flourishing in my palace:

True Biblical Jesus Christ's Rest
Jeremiah 6
[16] Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for THE OLD PATHS, where is THE GOOD WAY, and WALK THEREIN, and ye shall find REST FOR YOUR SOULS. But they said, WE WILL NOT WALK THEREIN.

Micah 2:
[10] Arise ye, and depart; for this is not your rest: because it is polluted, it shall destroy you, even with a sore destruction.

What kind of rest are you having, young person? Rest in pollution? Rest in errors? Rest in deviation?
Rest in corrupted doctrines?

You said yet again:
"At the lowest point in my life, God had restored me; when I felt lost, and had spoken to him in prayer, the holy spirit had guided me."

What is this lowest point in your life? You do not need to write about it but you know what it is.
Feeling better? This is no restoration of God being alone.

IF the lowest point is caused by injury of yourself with others, then Biblically, confess your faults one to another (James 5:16), repentance (Romans 2:4; 2 Corinthians 7:8-11), and make restitution (Luke 19:8) are God's ways of healing and restoration. The healing of our spirit is far better than the healing of our body.

Do not listen to the mesmerising voices and doctrines of man but the Word of God in ITS WHOLE COUNSEL. Any serious small part of untruth is the corruption of the whole truth even: health and wholeness through the holy communion. GO BACK TO YOUR CHURCH for Christ's sake. (2Tim 4:3)

6/11/07 10:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 5/11/07 9:23 AM

You have been a Christian all through your life and yet you are so naive, you need to be more discerning my friend. If you are an accountant, then you should doubly aware of what our Governement is doing in the recent paper reports for the security and proper management of funds in the religious organizations.

Now the relevant authority is checking through the accounts of NCC. I hope that the pay of Joseph Prince is not found to be lavish like that of TT Durai who violated the implicit code of morality in salary in the charity organization. The fall of Durai is due to his thought in making himself like a CEO of a secular, profit- making organization. Charity and Religious organizations must never be equivocated with Political, Commercial and Industrial organizations in salary scale. Any of such is a prostitution of the moral code of conduct in the Charity and Religious organizations. This was where many once popular preachers like Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, and many other charismatics from mega churches fell and are still falling.

God-loving people have given S$43 million in NCC for the expansion of Christ kingdom, not for worldly speculations and personal aggrandisement.
If every leader helps one another in a lion's share of the cake - This is trouble.
My prayer:
"O God do not let these happen."

The Examples of:
1.Our Lord Jesus Christ:
Matt 8:20
[20] And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

His teaching on discipleship:
Matthew 16:
[24] Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

2.Apostles Peter and John:
Acts 3:
[6] Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

3.Apostle Paul:
2 Corinthians 6:
[9] As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
[10] As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich (yet hypocrite is a reverse - "being made rich by others and others became poorer poor for him"); as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

4. Paul's Pastoral epistle to Timothy:
1 Timothy 6:
[7] For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
[8] And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
[9] But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
[10] For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
[11] But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

5. Jesus reproved those who came to the temple for personal gain in businesses.

Matthew 21:
[12] And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
[16] And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
[17] And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
[18] And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.

The Personal Agenda of Prospecting in the Church
Mark 11:
[15] And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;

Many come in the pretence of worshipping God but with the personal agenda of establishing contacts, sales of products, and other businesses.
All such are reproved by our Lord Jesus Christ.
May the Lord give good discernment to His people to know who is serving the Lord and who is serving his own belly.

Romans 16:
[17] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
[18] For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
[19] For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

Philippians 3:
[17] Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
[18] (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
[19] Whose end is destruction, WHOSE GOD IS THEIR BELLY, and whose glory is in their shame, who MIND EARTHLY THINGS.)

Where is the health and prosperity gospel then? Health and wealth are two things which God dealt with each one of us individually and as a nation. It is not to be herald and coveted after but a godly living in life with Christ is far better.

Meanwhile, health and wholeness through the Holy Communion is heretical. Health and Prosperity gospel is not of Christ but of deliberate human-fashioned and human-fabricated with selected and over-empohasizing parts of the Bible than the whole counsel of the Bible.

7/11/07 9:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Anonymous 5/11/07 9:23 AM

CANNIBALISM

You have highly-esteemed Joseph Prince and he is preaching drinking of Christ blood and eating of Christ flesh in the last Holy Communion.

One error after another. Getting worse than ever. He has to protect and defend his doctrine on "wholeness through the Holy Communion"; hence, he will have to accede to flesh and blood of Jesus Christ in the Holy Communion instead of a representation and remebrances.

What do you say now? How far would you go in error with Princy?

21/11/07 6:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 5/11/07 9:23 AM

Jesus Christ our Lord calls Satan as the great deceiver. To be deceived means to be led away from the truth without knowing it. If the persons being deceived knew they were being deceived, then deception would not have occurred. One must believe that one is not deceived in order to be deceived. It is just that simple.

I believe that understanding deception has a lot to do with having a proper perspective. Instead of having God’s perspective, the person being deceivedhas his own perspective. A human desire for power and the potential to beproud are two of the greatest barriers that prevent us from seeing God’sperspective. Satan’s plan is to deceive mankind by working on human weaknesses. He knows what he is doing.

THE DECEPTIONS:
1. The false doctrines and practices of healing and WHOLENESS through the Holy Communion.

2. The literal partaking of the Blood of Jesus Christ and the Flesh of Jesus Christ in the Holy Communion. Like Nicodemus who carnally understood the doctrine of the New Birth, by going back into the mother's and born again over. Does Jesus teaches CANNIBALISM when he said:

John6:
[54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
[55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
[56] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

The whole text here is based on the metaphor of Christ as the Living Bread from verse 51. It is errorneous and deception to take this teaching literally.

It takes a lot of graces of humility, lots of graces to return to the Truth; if ever you would return. Better it is to humble ourselves regarding our mistake than to continue in error; being deceived, you become a deceiver yourself, deceiving others.

23/11/07 10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear all,
"Health, joy and prosperity loving" preacher is now voted "NO CONFIDENCE" in the U.S.
The last of them was Ted Haggard now Roberts (WHO TRAVELS BY PRIVATE JET). They are actors. Can we pretend these things does not exist? "I dream of "Behold my wagon BMW?" Are there worldlings in religious garb?

Opportunists in the name of Christ are everywhere. The Lord Jesus said: FALSE PROPHETS IN SHEEP CLOTHINGS!Who do you think they are?

MATERIALISM CURSED

Jesus condemns religious pretenses for personal gain:
MATTHEW 23:
[16] WOE unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
[17] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
[18] And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
[19] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
[20] Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
[21] And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
[22] And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

Matthew 6:
JESUS SAID:
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

PASTORAL EXPISTLES OF
Paul to Timothy:

1 Timothy 6:
[6] But godliness with contentment is great gain.
[7] For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
[8] And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
[9] But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
[10] For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
[11] But thou, O man of God, FLEE THESE THINGS; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
[12] Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

MAKING LIGHT ON WEIGHTIER MATTERS CURSED

Jesus condemns those who ommitted the weightier matter of THE LAW, JUGEMENT, MERCY AND FAITH.
Matthew 23:
[23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The Lord Jesus of the Bible receives sinners (Matthew 8: woman taken in aultery), but He condemns religious hypocrites and coveters. (Matt 23)

Do you see the curses in the Gospel of Jesus Christ our Lord?
The Law has its curses. The Gospel also has its curses. Of the two, the Gospel curses are worse than the Law's curses. The gentle, meek, mild and loving Saviour Jesus pronounces His curses on religious hypocrites.

If your Jesus is not the Jesus of the whole Bible, he is an imposter.
Satan can tranform himself as an angel of light. Those who pick and chose the Bible verses for teaching and personal delight are in danger.

BEWARE OF DOCTRINAL ERROR

30/11/07 10:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello,

Do you know that there was none in the whole Bible preached more about HELL than the loving Jesus Christ in the Four Gospels?

And none pronounced so much curses in the whole Bible than the loving Jesus in the Four Gospels?

Today, many of the health and wealth preachers are dumb and numb to these warnings of our loving Jesus. Grace without Truth is no grace. Grace with half Truth is false grace. "GRACE AND TRUTH CAME BY JESUS CHRIST" John 1:17

1/12/07 8:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Further,
I think the problem with Joseph Prince is initially with the understanding of Justification and Sanctification before the heresy of "health and wholeness through the Holy Communion."

Why are the curses of Jesus Christ in the Four Gospels, more serious than the curses of the Law?

1.Because Graces are free but men in their subtilty, use the grace of God to license, to allow, to cover and to defend sin.

2.Because Graces are free but men in their hypocrisy, despise righteousness and continue to sin under the pretext of grace abound.

Romans 5:
[20] Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
The gracious long-suffering and loving God dispenses His graces freely even greater and more than our sins.

While the grace of God is dispensed freely, it is God's will (thelema) that men must strive with the Spirit to stop sinning by giving a good fight of faith. A SAVED PERSON will continue in His walk with God in fighting against the trinity of evil: sin, Satan and the World.

The worst thing that wicked men would do is to abuse the free grace of God by continuing in sin carelessly, thoughtlessly, covetously and deliberately.
Romans 6:
[1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
This is the acid test of true grace in a person.

PS: I did not say that we are sinless after being saved by grace alone, but struggling against our sin sincerely before God and men is one of our important pre-occupation in our Christian confession (not for our justification but to live a life that is approved of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.)

1/12/07 1:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

May I add some more remarks to that of the above.

I make a study into the articles of this blog. I think many have the zeal of the NCC in defending it. "I think you are attacking a straw man.." "pastor prince made me believe more in God more." It is no longer the Holy Spirit.

But I am appalled by the strong secterian remarks as if our Lord Jesus Christ is confined in NCC. Many of the remarks here which determined to defend Mr. Joseph Prince wrote as though he is the sole-proprietor of Jesus Christ.

In my opinion, Mr. Prince has made many doctrinal and devotional errors in many of his sermons but the most obvious and glaring of them all is "the health and wholeness through the Holy Communion." Secondly his lavish life-style betrays him as a disciple of Christ. He will not take corrections. Although thousands seem to disregard this fact, but the Word of God will one day lights these people's understanding of what is to be a servant of Christ in the Gospel Ministry according to the Gospel.

Singapore is taken up with materialism with the fast-growing economy, the people in the church are carried along with the flood of riches in the world which has blinded their right judgment and understanding of what those who are serving in the name of religion and charity ought to be.

The gravest immorality lies with pastors and other religious and charity leaders who cast their hands into the plough in the increasing economic treasury of their organisation.

I am thankful to our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Owner, the Proprietor and the Creator of the whole world, who came into Jerusalem on an ass colt who fished out a lost coin from the water to pay His taxes. What an example!

Today, popular pastors prompt, fight and demand for high wages over one another for reputation. High pay is God's favour? What a great mess have these religionists and charity leaders made in their organisations - a covetous detour from the moral of giving to grabbing.

This is no preaching of Christ but another Christ, another Gospel.

Judge yourself.

4/12/07 6:31 AM  
Blogger joykeeper said...

I have read your argument against taking communion for healing, and must disagree with your viewpoint.

Having struggled my whole life with many illnesses and maladies, one thing stands alone, out of all that has been offered to me by the medical profession,the nutritional industry, and all other healing alternatives... including many sincerely instituted by some of my beloved Christian brothers and sisters. This one thing has proved itself to be the only affective and enduring remedy for all my disease and infirmities...that of taking Daily Holy Communion.

I have prayed, consulted many, and have done indepth study of both Scripture and science, as to why this might be so. With the help of the Holy Spirit, I have come to the conclusion that it involves the mind-body connection, and the fact that we have memory at the cellular level. Our wellbeing and our behavior are affected by what we believe --and what we remember--at the cellular level.

When we are remembering Christ, as He commanded, during the partaking of Holy Communion, we are also... at that exact same instant... forgetting and dismissing our sickness, from the very core and essence of who we are as His created beings. We are remembering to be whole and well, according to His design...His plan... and His command.

While we are still yet housed in these wondrous physical bodies of His Divine Design, which have become prone to deterioration, disease, and death... because we live in a fallen world and because they are not yet glorified... let us not refrain from the fullness of this precious gift of Holy Communion, nor miss out on any of its inherent blessings, because we limit our understanding of it... due to fear, ignorance, and religious taboos.

We can be certain that our Lord experienced the pain, suffering, and death of the Cross... as well as His Resurrection in a Glorified Body... at the deepest recesses of the cellular level. Let us not be ashamed, nor afraid, to be healed at that level as well.

~joykeeper

8/12/07 4:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Joykeeper,

It is not surprising that you do not agree because your findings and assertions are not Biblically based, and infered.

You conclude your belief mainly by experiences than first by Bible base; hence, you will not be able to establish pure Bible view of a doctrine especially the Doctrine of Holy Communion.

Here is your subtilty:
You said (within the inverted commas):
"When we are remembering Christ, as He commanded, during the partaking of Holy Communion, we are also..." (You have added that follows on and on after this statement as your own rationalized unsupported by the Bible), "at that exact same instant... forgetting and dismissing our sickness, from the very core and essence of who we are as His created beings. We are remembering to be whole and well, according to His design...His plan... and His command." It is sad.

I believe in certain cases,but not in every case and in every person, that he must be health wealthy and healed of his sickness. The Sovereign God choses whom He heals - through the prayer of His people and the church, but not confine through popular pastors and ordinances.

This doctrine of healing through the Holy Communion will bring the church to the bondage of pastors because Holy Communion cannot be conducted by non-church ordained officials. While NCC pastors esp JP, who preach liberty of grace and sermons of grace but in practices they are bringing simpletons to bondage. They believe in reliance on human energized and conducted ordinance of the Holy Communion to gain health and healing of sickness. Grace is turned to glorify the instrument than the Giver. (Wah, awesome message of JP!}

Peter was never strong in health. Paul was a man of little stature with much infirmities of the flesh. He suffered for Christ through self denial than living with abounding material gain. John was never a healthy. At his ripened age,he was banished to Patmos with little food and secluded from metropolitan city. They are the poorest, weakest and the most despised among men, but they glorified God more than all the modern, worldly and materialistic, sinful pleasure loving Christian leaders added together.

My friend Joykeeper, I am not ashamed to be healed by God through prayer. I do praise and thank God for it, but I will not give glory to - 1. the error of practices in human deviced doctrine of healing, wholeness through the Holy Communion. 2. any man who coveted in the flesh for health and material gain for himself in the Gospel Ministry. To give glory to a man who conducts Holy Communion and bring glory and wealth to himself is robbing God of His glory.

In this, I am ashamed of "Christian pastors" living in deviated manner of life inconsistent to the Gospel words of Christ and justify himself for it. There are indeed already many have fallen. It is not surprising that there will be more to come. For this, I am ashamed of them. Christianity will become a byword through them with no difference to pagan's pursuit of materialism.

Money is not God. Health is not God. Material prosperity is not God. We like to be better in health and wealth but we do not covet for them through religious purposes and doctrinal teachings.
Neither do we think of healing and emphasize it in the Holy Communion. GOD IS GOD.

Read this and ask God to give wisdom in understanding:

God said to Solomom:
2 Chronicles 1:
[11] And God said to Solomon, Because this was in thine heart, and thou hast not asked riches, wealth, or honour, nor the life of thine enemies, neither yet hast asked long life; but hast asked wisdom and knowledge for thyself, that thou mayest judge my people, over whom I have made thee king:
[12] Wisdom and knowledge is granted unto thee; and I will give thee riches, and wealth, and honour, such as none of the kings have had that have been before thee, neither shall there any after thee have the like.

Health, wealth and healing seekers be convicted of the above passage and do not rationalize.

Solomon ask for wisdom but not for riches, honour, fame and long-life). God give him more than he asked but he asked for the right thing. He was not covetous.

Israel asked for meat for health, strength, personal aggrandisement etc)but God send leanness to their soul.
Psalm 106:
[14] But lusted exceedingly in the wilderness, and tempted God in the desert.
[15] And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul.

Do you think God will not do this?
Do you see the above differences?
Will this be another one of the Old Testament's excuses?

This is the Gospel purpose:
Hebrew 13:
[14] For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come."

8/12/07 3:33 PM  
Blogger joykeeper said...

Dear anonymous,

My findings are indeed biblically based, but I will waste no more precious time pointlessly trying to convince you, by quoting a long list of applicable and pertinent Scripture. For I can see
that you are obviously one who enjoys the sound of your own voice above that of the Holy Spirit. Anything I quote would just get echoed back to me, like someone calling out into an empty canyon... only it would not come back sounding anything remotely similar to what I sent out.

That is because your use of Scripture is self-serving, and is enlisted only to prove your own arguments, not to truly enlighten, nor uplift anyone's soul... and most certainly not to invoke healing of any sort. THAT is what I find sad.

I do not know any of the parties involved in this discussion, and only discovered this blog while doing research for a non-related project. So I have no axe to grind... just my own experiences to share, which I treasure as gifts from God, even though you find them of questionable value.

I have little money and few worldly goods, and am not in the least hung up about it, because I consider myself already very wealthy. The things I experience each and every day in this troubled world ...as the Holy Spirit walks by my side helping me understand how they are all masterfully, lovingly, joyfully, interwoven with the Cross... make me rich. Every chance I get, as the Lord leads, I give it all away wherever, and to whomever, I possibly can. "Wherever your heart is, there also is your treasure."

You are right that health and wealth are not God. True wealth and health COME FROM GOD alone, and are freely given by Him. No religious ritual, not even Holy Communion is a magic incantation, intended to summon these things for us. All gifts from God come down freely as "cascading lights from the Father." Cascading Light is opened to our understanding in a series of revelations. Yes, these are still being unveiled to us more and more each day, each hour, each minute.

The Universe is expanding, and so are our souls, even with these fallen natures. That is how God intended it to be. Holy Communion is no exception. The Lights of it are still cascading and being opened more and more to our fuller understanding and application. Why should that seem so foreign to you, if indeed you know how the Holy Spirit works? Do you believe that just because the canon is "closed," that this limits or restricts the Holy Spirit in some way? Or precludes new revelation? The Book of Revelation itself was made to be a continual unveiling, right up until the Second Coming and beyond.

You assume so much and yet know so little about these things of which you so boastfully spout. I never claimed that I had been cured of all my ails, merely that I had found the true remedy for each of them. Being healed sometimes includes a cure, and sometimes not. I have had several miraculous healings, some with cures, and others with the kind of remedy that Paul received for his "thorn." I consider those remedies no less important or complete, for they have made my life a joyous adventure... instead of an exercise in hardship and meaningless pain... or an excuse to sit back and passively view life as it passes me by, while I focus on my infirmities.

I now leave you to your endless circular debate, and recommend that when you finally talk yourself into a mindless stupor, drunk on your own words (and I'd say that time is just around the corner)... try taking communion as my husband and I do... at home alone. It will sober up even the most habitually self-deceived, as well as help those like yourself who are infected with a nasty critical spirit.

We need no pastor, be it man or woman, to administer "the meal that heals" to us. We have Christ- confidence in our authority to administer it to ourselves. "Where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

Now, aren't you tickled pink? you have another topic of discussion for your heretical witch hunt. Enjoy this little hobby of yours while you can, for soon you will eat your own words, as the Holy Spirit will have it no other way. I trust that the Lord will answer my prayer and not go too very hard on you when the weight of your swollen head makes you trip over your own ego, and you become tongue-tied... the withdrawal symptoms will be fierce, so prepare yourself.

Think it can't happen? Well, think again. John the Baptist's daddy, for one, can attest to the distinct possibility. Reality is always subject to revision, especially where one is deep into denial or so readily believes his or her own BS. Based on your BS meter alone, you shall soon find yourself partaking of some humble pie, along with your cup and wafer. I suggest that you
choke it down, take it as medicine for the soul... and call Him in the morning.

~joykeeper

9/12/07 11:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where is your Bible base of " healing, health and wholeness through the Holy Communion"?

Angry rhetoric writings do not put things right. This cannot be of grace.

Show me from the Bible that the doctrine of healing, health and wholeness through the Holy Communion" is supported directly by Bible verses, I shall concede my error, my friend. Let's be objective and not get angry.

10/12/07 5:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Joykeeper and all leaders who suppported the NCC?

Why am I all out against the false unorthodox doctrine and practice of healing, health and wholeness of the Holy Communion?

1. THE PLIGHT OF FALSE DOCTRINES
Because it mars the glory of God and deviate from the true Person of our Lord Jesus Christ. Holy Communion which is an ordinance of the Lord's command to be conducted by men, at best, represents the significance of Christ suffering and death. But it has no efficacy whatsover in the "ritual". By propagating its efficacy with healing and wholeness, are additions of men to the true Biblical doctrines of the Holy Communion without direct authorisation of the Scriptures. Hence it is falsehood. This will elevate and feed the pride of men.

2. THE EFFECT OF FALSE DOCTRINES AND PRACTICES
Such doctrines of healing and wholeness through the Holy Communion are men coveted attention of what they can do in the cover of what God can do. Hence it promotes human greed, avarices and rebellion in religious name.

3.THE CONSEQUENCES OF FALSE DOCTRINES AND PRACTICES
Corruption of life will be its consequence for religious leaders.
Instead of being a contributor for the good of the society, it deviates from the principles of giving, they coveted for high demands, high life and high pay. Half a million a year will NEVER be sufficient for these plunderers and opportunists in the society in the name of religion and charity. Religious and charity hypocrisy are most hateful in the eyes of our Lord Jesus Christ, especially in covetousness which is idolatry -self-worship, Matt. 23. Christians under these leaders may become more rebellious to authorities in the home, to the Government and the law of the nation, and to the rules of the society despising powers, magistrates and rulers over them. People will become more rebellious and difficult to handle,in our days than the past.

The Christian world has lost its vision from the Bible. They make revisions by their corrupt interpretation of and from the Bible. Many strayed from light to darkness (false light).

Joykeeper, I am not worthy to be called John the Baptist's daddy even if it is written as an angry humiliating figuration. I am honoured through your dishonour. Perhaps, more likely to be a little like one of John the Baptist's son to herald warnings of deviation, false gospels, false Christs,and falsehoods in the modern Christendom (Matt. 24:24, Mark 13:2) before the Son of God, Jesus Christ, comes the Second Time!

11/12/07 11:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

JESUS SAID:

Matthew 24:
[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:
[22] For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
[23] But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

11/12/07 4:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the last days,indeed, there will be healthy and prosperity "Christ", healthy and prosperity "Prophets"' and healthy and prosperity "Apostles" - they will worship healthy and prosperity gods using the name of Jesus Christ to cover themselves in order to appear genuine. Many health and wealth preachers have been exposed and fallen in the U.S. but people for the sake of health and wealth never learn.

Perversion of the Gospel of our Lord shall be the manifesto in the last days. Deceived, foolish and simple people will be drawn to them. The more you write against their errors, the more they will rejoice in the error and evil of the love of money. Revelation 3:16,17.

30/12/07 6:31 AM  
Anonymous Save-by-Grace said...

Anyone attended the recent Benny Hinn's at Indoor Stadium?

Two thing I would like to point out.

1. Pastor Benny Hinn also shared about the Holy Communion is more than remembering the bread and wine, but the benefits in it is healing purchased by Christ,
2. The Brazen Serpent is Christ, so whoever is bitten by the snake focus on the Brazen Serpent will not die, it is like focusing on Jesus Christ on the Cross and you shall be saved.

Both have been covered by Pastor Prince before, so by reasoning if Pastor Benny is correct, so is Pastor Prince.

By the way Pastor Prince main teaching is on Christ, The book on Galatians is where Pastor Prince based his teaching on. "we saved by faith, not by the works of the law". It is no longer your keeping or your performance work of the law saved you, it is your faith. So what is the law for? Galatians describe it that the law points your need for a savior.

Before that, I never knew where did Pastor Prince based his teaching on, until I read Galatians.

Remember people, if you are a believer, know that Jesus is your Lord, not only your Saviour. Don't identify yourself as your belonging to a church or a pastor. Read the bible yourself, ask God to teach His Words.

22/1/08 10:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Saved by Grace,

1. The Epistle of Galatians was dealing with SALVATION through faith alone. No contention against this. That is why we all confessed Christ as our Lord and Saviour.

2. The Epistles of Romans, James and I and II Peter treat not only of Justification by faith but also Santification through faith by the whole counsel of the Word of God. A holy life through faith after being justified is expressedly the will of God for every believer. WE ARE NOT SAVED BY THE LAW OR JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW OF GOD, but the knowledge of the Law is the knowledge of sin which a holy life before God through Christ Jesus is good and needful, NOT FOR SALVATION. AFTER BEING SAVED, we progress through SANCTIFICATION by the study of the whole counsel of God's Word including the Law. YOU DON'T THROW THE LAW OF GOD OUT OF YOUR WINDOW FOR SANCTIFICATION? Do you?

3. Read in the whole of the New Testament that there is any PREACHER that lived like the way Benny Hinn and JP live. The living standard and life of a preacher can tell more than his own words of profession. The Bible does not agree with professional, commercializing and entertaining Christianity.

4. You said, " 1. Pastor Benny Hinn also shared about the Holy Communion is more than remembering the bread and wine, but the benefits in it is healing purchased by Christ,"

So Benny Hinn and JP said that holy communion is more than remembering.
BUT JESUS CHRIST SAID: "THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME." I trust Jesus Christ my Lord than Benny Hinn and Joseph Singh (Prince)combined together. What about you?

5. SUMMARY
The whole matter here is not the contention of Salvation by grace through faith,(which is my personal salvation's confession),

BUT SANCTIFICATION IN FAITH THROUGH GRACE WITH THE WHOLE COUNSEL OF THE WORD OF GOD is denied - The need to be holy (set apart) as God is holy.

26/1/08 6:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are too many hypocrites among the Christian pastors and leaders.

I would not trust any but the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. What He said is always true. If a man tries to be better by speaking more than Jesus, he is a liar.

26/1/08 7:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reply to Saved By Grace,

What are you seeking for? Enthusiasm? Excitement? Health? Or what Jesus said in 1 Corinthians 11 verses 24 and 25 about Holy Communion? It only proves how gullible and frantic people are to some "great talking men" of "faith" who is the authority themselves than the Word of God. Light ear and gullibility are the order of the day. It is not surprising that any person can be the victim of falsehood.

26/1/08 9:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Suppose 15,000 follow Joseph Prince and 30,000 follow Benny Hinn to believe healing through the Holy Communion but Jesus Christ says only "This do in remembrance of me," Who would you follow? Who would you believe? Who would you think to speak the truth?

29/1/08 11:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like to add on two more questions for Anoynmous 29/1/08 11:06 PM

"Suppose 15,000 follow Joseph Prince and 30,000 follow Benny Hinn to believe healing through the Holy Communion but Jesus Christ says only "This do in remembrance of me," Who would you follow? Who would you believe? Who would you think to speak the truth?" DESPITE OF SOME "EVIDENCES OF HEALING," WHO WOULD YOU BELIEVE? These preachers' added words or Jesus Christ's words in the Bible?

6/2/08 3:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

2 Timothy 4 (King James Version)

2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

adrian, Romania

21/2/08 2:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

JESUS PRONOUNCES:
MATTHEW 23:
[23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have OMITTED THE WEIGHTIER MATTERS OF THE LAW, JUDGMENT, MERCY AND FAITH: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
[24] Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Blind guides are they who keep emphasizing on the not-so-important matters like "wholeness", health, wealth, prosperity etc.and minimize, deny, and deviate the more important matters like the law,judgment, mercy and faith.

Propagating justification and denying sanctification is a serious matter. In Christ, faith, mercy, judgment and the law are embodied as the Oracles of God.

JUSTIFICATION
Faith alone justifies. Faith alone = salvation. The Law of God has no power to save but to condemn the sinner.

SANCTIFICATION
The Word of God includes the Law of God which sanctifies through Christ for the Christian living. This doctrine of sanctification has been repeatedly taught in diverse ways in the Gospels and Epistles after being saved, to live a righteous and God-glorifying life in Christ.
"Sanctify them through thy truth, thy word is truth" John 17:17

While conducting the Holy Communion, J.Prince of NCC said, "This bread is the body of Jesus and the wine is the blood of Jesus." This is cannibalism not Holy Communion.

Grace without truth is no grace. Grace with half truth is false grace. "Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ."
John 1:
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of GRACE AND TRUTH.
[17] For the law was given by Moses, but GRACE AND TRUTH came by Jesus Christ.

3/3/08 10:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe justification automatically produce sanctification..because we are human being and limited..we can either abuse the teaching of radical grace or the teaching which promote more of sanctification..

12/3/08 7:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

but despite of that abuse in practice or teaching, we are still righteous in the eyes of our Father because of Jesus Christ finished work.

I believe that if God can used anything for His glory, He may use the holy communion to bring God's love and healing. He is a soveriegn God and he can do whatever he pleases not only limiting on His written word the Bible, but in the Biblical principle and revelation that He can used anything for His glory.

We can practice (do good works, but not perfectly of course) as if we are sanctified without the realization of justification or God's love to us (that is legalism), but once we are truly justified and have deep realization of God's love, a sanctified life is automatically producing in us. It is not that justification doctrine covers the sanctification doctrine because I believe that you cannot separate sanctification from justification. Once you separate that it is assumed that you are doing good works apart from the perfect finished work of Jesus Christ.

I also read your views regarding Ted Haggard,Jimmy Swaggart etc..my conclusion is: those things are also happening in any groups/denominations, not only on those prospery/healing preachers.
In fact in my own denomination (southern Baptist), I know one not-well known pastor who sexually abused his 3 youth members within the same year. all of them became pregnant. Actually my uncle a pastor in a conservative/fundamental Baptist group commits adultery by living with the sister of his wife 5 years ago.

They have a sound doctrine (according to our interpretation)..but why this is happening?

Meaning despite that you hold a classical protestant doctrine or radical doctrine of prosperity and healing, all this things (pastor/church leaders falling from grace) are happening here in this world and it may happen in the future. That is why we need not our righteousness but God's righteousness through Jesus Christ finished work on the cross and his resurrection.

13/3/08 12:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1. What is God's Righteousness?
2. If justification covers sanctification, then will it not be superflous to have two different Biblical terms? It definitely cannot be.

16/3/08 7:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1. God's righteousness in the finished work of Jesus Christ is not right doing, but right being. We are righteous not because of what we do, but what has been done on the cross.

2. the term justification and sanctification are two different terms, but you cannot say that you are sanctified without first justified. and it will not be separated. Only theologians are doing that separation of terms. I did not say that justification covers sanctification. What I mean is once you are truly justified, a sanctified life is automatically producing in us. Why? because you want to know and follow God because He first loved us and we will love Him. But despite of that craving in us to follow him, we cannot perfectly perform it..that is why we have to return to justification that we are righteous because of what Christ has done on the cross and the only thing that we should do is to rest on the finished work of Jesus Christ.

The problem with us sometimes is we will differentiate those terms as if we can live a sanctified life without the justification work of Jesus Christ. And for me that is legalism.

26/3/08 6:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now am I pleased to hear you acknowledge the two great doctrines of the Bible:

1. JUSTIFICATION IN CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS
2. SANCTIFICATION THROUGH CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Fully agreeable: Sanctification comes after justification. But if they are not different terms why should you say one comes before another "you cannot say that you are sanctified without first justified." They must be different but both terms applied to our faith in Christ. Sanctification without faith in Christ is self-righteousness. Faith plus the works of the law is legalism.

Yes! Let God's Word speaks for Itself on the subject of Sanctification.

1. THE AUTHOR OF SANCTIFICATION:
GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT
A.1Thess 5:
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
B.1 Peter 1:
[2] Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

2Thess 2:
[13] But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


2. THE MEANS OF SANCTIFICATION:THE TEACHING OF THE WHOLE BIBLE
John 17:
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.


3. THE YOUR ACT OF SANCTIFICATION IN CHRIST (responsibility):
1Thess 4:
[3] For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
[4] That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

Lastly,
You said:
"The problem with us sometimes is we will differentiate those terms as if we can live a sanctified life without the justification work of Jesus Christ. And for me that is legalism."

The writings in this blog on sanctification does not isolate from faith in Christ at all. Please read them CAREFULLY. I think the problem with us is this:
Christians want a better part of both worlds - The world of God ("God so loved the world...") and the world of sin("Love not the world neither the things that are in the world.."). Contemporary Christians do not want to depart from their sins after believing in Christ. So sanctification is denied in a subtle manner as legalism ..phariseeism etc. But our sanctification is in Christ and through Christ with the Word of God as the way.

It is certainly heretical who teaches "Healing through the Holy Communion." Now it is not just healing but princy is teaching and preaching eating the body and drinking the blood of Jesus Christ. "This is the blood and body of Jesus Christ" while conducting the Holy Communion. Listen to him carefully. If English is not English then what are these implications? It is heretical and cannibalistic.

28/3/08 8:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A agree with you that we should live a sanctified life, but what I really mean is the motivation doing it..

I believe that our motivation of doing it is based on the justification works of Jesus Christ..we can love him and follow his commands not for the sake that the law is telling us to do this or do that, but because He first love us and as a result of that love, we will love him naturally.

Last you said: "I think the problem with us is this:
Christians want a better part of both worlds - The world of God ("God so loved the world...") and the world of sin("Love not the world neither the things that are in the world.."). Contemporary Christians do not want to depart from their sins after believing in Christ. So sanctification is denied in a subtle manner as legalism ..phariseeism etc"

For me, other Christians, emphasize more on sanctification as if that is the basis of God's acceptance and to the extreme it will lead to legalism..phariseeism etc..

On the other hand, others will abuse the covenant of grace and to the extreme will lead to lawlessness or antinomianism..

I observed all of that teaching and practices because I belong to what they call PK group (Pastor's Kid).

There were pastors and church ministers either on the right (more on legalism) or on the left (abusing grace) or they say in balancing law and grace which lead to the same destruction.

That is why I conclude that since we are human being..we really need a saviour. A saviour who will not only save us from our sins of the past, but our present sins as well as our future sins..that is the greatest love..We crave for a holy life because we realized the greatest love of God for us..and also realized that we we are doing those good things not to become righteous, but because we are already righteous in Christ Jesus.

28/3/08 2:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First, you sounded as if doing good is legalism. Doing good without Jesus Christ is, indeed legalism.

It is, after justification, sanctification begins in a Christian life- it is God worketh in you. You said, quote: "We crave for a holy life because we realized the greatest love of God for us..and also realized that we we are doing those good things not to become righteous, but because we are already righteous in Christ Jesus." YOU SAID IT RIGHT.

Next, "WHAT IS THIS HOLY LIFE YOU CRAVE FOR?" We are coming close that Christian righteousness is not legalism but holiness IN CHRIST. When you are justified, YOU DO NOT SEEK TO BE JUSTIFIED OVER AND OVER AGAIN, unless you are not justified at all. YOU NEED TO BE SANCTIFIED AFTER BEING JUSTIFIED, TO BE HOLY THROUGH THE WORD OF GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST FOR YOUR CHRISTIAN LIVING, TO GLORIFY GOD THE FATHER. This is not legalism at all.

You said: " For me, other Christians, emphasize more on sanctification as if that is the basis of God's acceptance and to the extreme it will lead to legalism..phariseeism etc.."

Reply:
After being justified in Christ, you are saved. Being saved, do you expect God to accept your errors and mistakes or corrects them?

It really shows you do not understand what sanctification is. There is no extremity in the Bible doctrine of Sanctification because we are only progressively sanctified through Christ by the Word of God. When you are justified, you do not go back again and again for justification to confound yourself in justification for sanctification.
Jesus said:
"Matt 5:
[48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Is Jesus an extremist, a legalist? It only shows how shallow is your understanding of the Holy Bible.

You said:
"On the other hand, others will abuse the covenant of grace and to the extreme will lead to lawlessness or antinomianism.."

Good.

Quote: Joe Princy:
"By bringing the law into the church, you are bringing sin to it." Unquote
Who is an Antinomian?

Again, what you are writing is only concern with the side issue here, but the main issue is THE HERESY OF HEALING THROUGH THE HOLY COMMUNION OF PRINCY'S TEACHING AND PRACTICES. What is horrifying now is cannibalism in the holy communion. How will you justify these?

This section is to all pastor's kids in NCC. I am ashamed and wondered what are you pastor's kids doing in a cultish secular organisation ("doing investment and proposed development") masquerading a church? You sounded so proud to be a pastor's kid. You seems to have jumped out of the frying pan of spiritual immaturity and very bitter pastors' home problems and ran into the fire of promoting the course of heresy?
I believe in the doctrine of the final preservation of the saints.

You have gone into the lair of an exhorbitantly paid hireling than to a shepherd who serve and watch for your soul.

Our Ministers of State are paid to care for 4,000,000 people but he is paid (a million?) to "care" for 14,000 people with his dreamed car Behold My Wagon (BMW) etc. and etc.

May God have mercy upon such religious deception and hypocrisy.

31/3/08 8:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

God set before us of seven churches in Asia in Revelation chapter 2,3. Which category does your church fall into?
1. The church in Ephesus.
2. The church in Smyrna.
3. The church in Pergamos.
4. The church in Thyatira.
5. The church in Sardis.
6. The church in Philadelphia.
7. The church of the Laodiceans.

1/4/08 11:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous friend,

first I am a pastor's kid, but not a member of NCC.

I am not a Singaporian, I am a Filipino living in the Phil. and never been in Singapore.

I understand your point of justification and sanctification as it was the teaching that I heard and understand since I know Jesus Christ as my own personal saviour (20 years ago) being saved in a Southern Baptist Church.

Friend, God does not accept my errors and mistakes, but He accept me as his son because I believe I am a child of God. He accept me despite of who I am in Christ Jesus.

About Holy Communion, I am not expereincing healing in our church in the Philippines, but if God will use that in NCC for healing..to God be the glory!

About BMW, I don't have that. I am only a youth minister who support my own ministry as a full time accountant. but if God will bless Joseph Prince or the pastor of CHC or any pastor..no problem with me.

You said "You sounded so proud to be a pastor's kid. You seems to have jumped out of the frying pan of spiritual immaturity and very bitter pastors' home problems and ran into the fire of promoting the course of heresy?"

I don't know if there is love in what you are saying without first knowing me personally. I understand you. You are a person who loves your theology/beliefs more than loving a person.

If Jesus Christ can love a sinner and hate the sin, you are a person who love your beliefs/theology and hate the person who does not support your beliefs.

You know what, sometimes I disagree with my father (a Southern Baptist Pastor) in some theological issues, but I love him as my father.

If you believe in the doctrine of the final preservation of the saints, I believe that I am righteous in Christ Jesus. Amen.

You know what, it is not your doctrine who saves you, but the person of Jesus Christ.

1/4/08 11:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You said: "There is no extremity in the Bible doctrine of Sanctification because we are only progressively sanctified through Christ by the Word of God. When you are justified, you do not go back again and again for justification to confound yourself in justification for sanctification."

Yes you are correct that there is no extremity in the Bible doctrine of sanctification. But there is an extremity in YOUR DOCTRINE of sanctification.

1/4/08 11:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is the extremity?

2/4/08 12:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What about NCC heresy and cannibalism?

2/4/08 12:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 1/4/08 11:15 PM

Woh, woh, woh....there is indeed a lot of bitterness in your sweeping reply.

1.Your reply:
"I don't know if there is love in what you are saying without first knowing me personally. I understand you. You are a person who loves your theology/beliefs more than loving a person.

If Jesus Christ can love a sinner and hate the sin, you are a person who love your beliefs/theology and hate the person who does not support your beliefs."

My Answer:
I love to tell truths from the Bible to whosoever will.
Thank you for the honour through dishonour. I wish I could put God, God's Word and God's sound doctrines first always but we often put man first before God.

2.My statement:
"After being justified in Christ, you are saved. Being saved, do you expect God to accept your errors and mistakes or correct them?"

Your reply:
"Friend, God does not accept my errors and mistakes, but He accept me as his son because I believe I am a child of God. He accept me despite of who I am in Christ Jesus."

YOU ARE TONGUE TWISTING MY STATEMENT.

3. You wrote:
"If you believe in the doctrine of the final preservation of the saints, I believe that I am righteous in Christ Jesus. Amen."

You are educated Mr. Accountant, and you know what I mean in my paragraph on the final preservation of the saints.Bless you if you are truly righteous in Christ Jesus.

4. You wrote:
"You know what, it is not your doctrine who saves you, but the person of Jesus Christ."

Thank you for this counsel. Indeed there is none but the Lord Jesus Christ has saved me. The Same who saves me taught the multitudes and his disciple of His doctrines:

Matt 22:
[33] And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

Mark.1
[22] And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.
[27] And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.

Mark.4
[2] And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,

Mark.11
[18] And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.

Mark.12
[38] And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,

Luke.4
[32] And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

John.7
[16] Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

[17] If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

What are you studying the Bible for, if not for doctrines?

Lastly, it is very strange that you write nothing constructive to defend the heresy through the Holy Communion and cannibalism in the Holy Communion of the NCC, yet you defended JP, deviated my statement about JP's BMW and etc. I do not even know you and when did I say that you have a BMW but referring to JP's BMW? What do you say Mr. Accountant? You defended JP from the Philippines and you have never been to Singapore? Oops!

2/4/08 2:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous friend,

I am not defending what you call heresy of JP's holy communion and I am not attacking it either. What I believe based not on the word for word interpretation of the Bible but in interpration that if God can used people in different seasons with different ways, God can use JP's holy communion teaching for healing not for JP's glory, but for His glory.

If you are saying that it is cannibalism, therefore you are saying that you believe that in JP's communion there is really a transformation of bread into a flesh and grape juice into blood.

The Roman Catholic believes in that transformation but I did not judge them because that is only their belief contrary to what I/we believe that it will not transform to flesh or blood but only in remembrance of Christ death on the cross of calvary.

Even if it will transform into flesh or blood, but there is no transformation/changes in their lives it is still nothing.

Just like JP's teaching. If it will heal their physical body, without healing their soul it is still nothing.

But if the Bible is silent during that time that the holy communion can heal (the Bible did not also stated that the holy communion could not heal), God can still used that for healing in any place and in any time. He is a sovereign God and He can do what pleases Him even that it was not written in the Bible.

In your word for word interpretation, it was not stated that the the early Christian holy communion produces healing, but in principle that God can use everything for His glory, such healing may happen even today.

I respect your interpretation, and I hope you respect mine.

Just like Philip Yancey in one of his book. He said that He will ask Jesus Christ about the different interpretation and deviation of beliefs in any Christian groups when the time he meet Jesus in heaven.

Yes I agree with you in some of what you are saying, but we have differences in some issues. But the important thing I believe in Christianity is: despite of that differences we ought to love one another so that the world will know that we are the follower of Christ if we will love one another.

You are defending your learned doctrine, I was that also 10 years ago, but I realized that yes I have a sound evangelical/classical protestant doctrine, but if without love I am nothing.

God bless you my friend.

4/4/08 11:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous, don't be so proud of your classical doctrine of holy communion..I read one book of Mr. De Haan (an evangelical pastor who turned Roman Catholic and you may watch him in EWTN channel). He have also scriptural and historical proof of the roman catholic beliefs of what you call cannibalism in holy communion.

4/4/08 11:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I do not know De Haan.
I will glory in the Lord's doctrines. Incidently, I was a Roman Catholic now a Protestant.

For your sake let me start all over:

The word "Transubstantion" was introduced by the RC (Roman Catholics)way before 830AD. It was then promulgated by Pope Innocent III in 1215. The Council of Trent in 1551 made it an article of faith which pronounced a curse upon all who rejected or doubted the doctrine of Transubstantion:

Quote from the Council of Trent, the articles of faith :
"The sacrament of the Holy Eucharist (Holy Communion)is the true Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, together with His Soul and Divinity, under the appearance of bread and wine....The form is: "This is my Body," said over the bread, and "This is my Blood of the new and eternal covenant, the mystery of faith, which shall be shed for you and for many unto the remission of sin," said over the wine. The change of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ takes place by the power of God when the words of consecration ordained by Christ at the Last Supper are pronounced by the priest at the Holy Mass. This change is called Transubstantiation that is, a change - not in figure or appearance but in reality..."

This is still practice today.

So you are eating Jesus flesh and drinking Jesus blood by the power of the priest's blessing in every Holy Mass and JP is administrating Jesus flesh and Jesus blood in the Holy Communion. From healing to now cannibalism. No, not for me nor for any sound believer.

5/4/08 10:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To: Anonymous 4/4/08 11:41 PM

Dear Mr. Nice, who judges nothing and says nothing but all things good. But your statements are defending JP. Be a grown up man or woman to stand what is truth than neither hither nor thither.

Matthew 7:
[1] Judge not, that ye be not judged.
[2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

John 7:
[24] Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Is judging forbidden and unloving? Nay but judge rightly. What is the basis of being right - the Bible. Even in interpretation, it must be sound and good.

Do we have to love sins, the world and Satan, too? If you do not gauge the differences, you are living as one, righteous in your own eyes. God is seen to be evil to condemn sins, errors and deviations; and you being Mr.or Miss Nice.

Correction is not unloving. Jesus corrects His disciples, chides religious deviation and condemns religous hypocrisy and heresy.

Matt 23
[1] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
[2] Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
[3] All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
[4] For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
[5] But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
[6] And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
[7] And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
[8] But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
[9] And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
[10] Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
[11] But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
[12] And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

[13] But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

[14] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

[15] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

[16] Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
[17] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
[18] And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
[19] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
[20] Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
[21] And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
[22] And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

[23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
[24] Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

[25] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
[26] Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

[27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
[28] Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

[29] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
[30] And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
[31] Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
[32] Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
[33] Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
[34] Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
[35] That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
[36] Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
[37] O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
[38] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
[39] For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Even you have read this, many do not believe what Jesus has said.

5/4/08 11:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I appreciate your reaction with all the scriptures stated (in King James version I supposed). I was that 10 years ago..not in blog but in actual debate because internet was not yet booming at the time and I understand you for doing it right now.

That is why even Billy Graham realized that in his old years.

If that is the ministry that God is calling you, you may continue your style of teaching with a judgmental tone.

But I will also continue my style of not being judgmental: sharing and unveiling God's love and grace in my ministry.

I hope that our passion for Jesus Christ and compassion for others overflows.

I hope to see you personally, but if it will not happen..I believe we will see each other in heaven.

Thanks and God bless to all of us!

5/4/08 3:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Anonymous 5/4/08 3:59 PM



1Sam.15
[22] And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, TO OBEY IS BETTER THAN SACRIFICE, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
[23] For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected THE WORD OF THE LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Some fall after 10 years, others 20, 30, 40 or even 50 years of faithfulness. Billy Graham said that he would have Mao Tse-Tung's precept if there is no 10 commandments of God. I do not judge in my judgment but by quoting the word of God to support each statement I made. That which is judging is the Words of the Lord Jesus Christ.

You appear to be more gracious and loving than the Lord Jesus Christ who reproved religious hypocrisy and damnable errors in Matthew 23. If I am having a judgmental tone, the Lord Jesus Christ is more - 8 woes in Matthew 23. I am not judging but Matthew 23 is judging. But you are not accepting.

When you come to spiritual truths, it is not my style or your style but "The entrance of Thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple."
Psalm 119:130.

I have this instruction from Paul:
"2 Tim 3:[16] "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". Are you more gracious and loving than Christ and the Word of God?

What makes you think that reproof and correction are not of grace and love?

I wrote in this manner because you are not a new believer but as one who has read the Word of God for 10 years and you believe your kind of grace and love other than what is written in the Bible. It is sad. You have deviated. Go back to Christ and learn of Him from His Words than to lean to your own understanding of what grace and love is. You cannot find grace and love apart from the Word of God.

5/4/08 11:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"2 Tim 3:[16] "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

What St. Paul is referring to by writting 'All scripture'? During that time the new testament was not yet written completely..meaning St. Paul refers to the old testament.

That's the problem of having the sola scriptura doctrine..they only stop the word of God after the new testament..For me I believe that God is still revealing His word to us today. His word is not only found in the Holy Scriptures, but in different ways. That is why even it was not stated that holy communion can produce healing, it is very possible that it will happen during our time.

If God can reveal to Martin Luther the save by faith alone doctrine during his time, God can reveal another belief during our time. example of that is JP's healing through holy communion.

8/4/08 5:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You said:
"I wrote in this manner because you are not a new believer but as one who has read the Word of God for 10 years and you believe your kind of grace and love other than what is written in the Bible. It is sad. You have deviated. Go back to Christ and learn of Him from His Words than to lean to your own understanding of what grace and love is. You cannot find grace and love apart from the Word of God."

I believe in grace and love other than in your interpretation of what is written in the Bible.

And there are many ways of reproof and correction, not based on condemnation but Grace and Love.

It is sad that you are still sticking in your judgmental way of teaching..I wonder why some christians are following Jesus out of fear and not motivated by love.

They only believe in the doctrine of grace, but are not living a life full of grace.

8/4/08 5:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are on polemical subjects of "heresy of healing through the Holy Communion" and cannibalism in the Holy Communion, not Christian fellowship and discussion.

Expect some strong Biblical remarks. A time for everything.

Tell me friend, how do you best interpret Matthew 23 with grace and love?

9/4/08 2:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Anonymous 8/4/08 5:52 PM

Christianity today fall far short of our fathers' faith in the Apostles' times (Book of Acts), and the Medieval reformation times.

Wishy-washy "grace" and "love" are not the objective way to sound doctrine but compromise.

It is sad that once you knew, but now your eyes are covered with scales of expediency, popularity, increases in goods and numbers and human approval. These have led many faithfuls in the past, away from the basic sound doctrines to fancier, easy and more popular "doctrines." The good old path which your father, who once brought you to, you have left to follow a new path and new ways. I am ashamed of you.

When indeed there is nothing new under the sun.

Call me hard, judgmental, whatever you will, the day when Truth remove your scaly eyes, you will give praise to the Lord for removing your scales of carnality in understanding the spiritual truths.

We have spiritual enemies, that keep on repeatingly putting Christ to death and feasting on His flesh and blood, re-crucifying Christ afresh,in eating Christ body and in drinking blood sacrifice, and you defend them. The Lord will require every action of men and women that strengthen the workers of iniquity. It is appalling. I think we have written enough.

9/4/08 3:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To: Anonymous 8/4/08 5:34 PM

This is where you have gone seriously and obviously wrong.

Quote your statement:
"That's the problem of having the sola scriptura doctrine..they only stop the word of God after the new testament..For me I believe that God is still revealing His word to us today. His word is not only found in the Holy Scriptures, but in different ways. That is why even it was not stated that holy communion can produce healing, it is very possible that it will happen during our time."

Deviation from the Scriptures is the main cause of heresy. This is where religious and personality cults begin - by departing from the Holy Scriptures.

10/4/08 6:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Anonymous 9/4/08 3:30 PM

You said:
"Christianity today fall far short of our fathers' faith in the Apostles' times (Book of Acts), and the Medieval reformation times."

As per one well known apologytics of Roman Catholicsm, protestants today skip the link of their faith to the early fathers..they direct their link of faith during the medieval reformation time, forgetting the early fathers, and link it directly to new testament church.

10/4/08 12:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are not contending against Rome here but elsewhere. The subject is still "Doctrinal heresy of healing through the Holy Communion" and "cannibalism in the Holy Communion."

10/4/08 5:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To: Anonymous 10/4/08 6:14 AM

You said:
"Deviation from the Scriptures is the main cause of heresy. This is where religious and personality cults begin - by departing from the Holy Scriptures."

You're correct if there is really a deviation from the principle of the word of God that He can do what pleases Him. The problem sometimes is we are using scripture to limit what God can do. We are limiting God's power on what is only written. There is only deviation if an act or teaching contradicted to God's word. In the case of healing, there is no contradiction since the Bible is silent on that issue. In the Bible, the primary purpose of holy communion is to remember the finished work of Jesus, and does not restict whatsoever the effect of that in our lives..meaning if it will bring healing, such teaching is not deviation from the scriptures, because there is no verse that says, that holy communion could not produce healing. There is no such verse that say's 'Thou shall not use holy communion for healing'

Yes the primary purpose is to remember the finished work of Jesus on the cross. No question about it. but if in addition it will bring healing or whatever good things in our lives, who will limit God for doing it to us?

It is contradictory that if God who can do what pleases Him will limit His power on what is written in the scriptures.

In fact the Jews until now are still waiting for the Messiah. Meaning they don't interpret the writtings of the old testament the same as Christian interpreted it.

Therefore, if in your interpretation, you are limiting God, I believe that God is not limited on what is written as long as there are no clear contradictions on what is written on the holy scriptures.

16/4/08 1:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1. Thank you for agreeing and quoting my statement:
"Deviation from the Scriptures is the main cause of heresy. This is where religious and personality cults begin - by departing from the Holy Scriptures."

But you stumble in the following:
You said:
"You're correct if there is really a deviation from the principle of the word of God that He can do what pleases Him. THE PROBLEM SOMETIMES IS WE ARE USING SCRIPTURE TO LIMIT WHAT GOD CAN DO."
Reply: When the Scriptures did not expressly state a practice or belief, you don't add your own to it. The question is not limiting God but doing WHAT GOD DID NOT EXPRESSLY SAY. It is sound not to practice what God did not say than to do more than what God has said -Sound hermeneutic.

2. Your paragraph 2:
"Yes the primary purpose is to remember the finished work of Jesus on the cross. No question about it. but IF IN ADDITION, it will bring healing or whatever good things in our lives, who will limit God for doing it to us?"

Reply: This is where the carnality and mischief of the corrupt human nature lies: "IF IN ADDITION" - Add in supposition.

To add to the Scriptures is just as severe as to minus from the Scriptures.
Revelation 22
[18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, IF ANY MAN SHALL ADD UNTO THESE THINGS, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
[19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

3. This is your fatal statement:
"It is contradictory that if God who can do what pleases Him will limit His power on what is written in the scriptures."

God will not do more than what He has promised and spoken in His Word. The Lord Jesus Christ being the Son of God did the will of the Father according to His Word -no more or less in His perfect obedience to the Father.
The Holy Spirit will not work more than what God has spoken because He cannot deny Himself.

Great risk to those who denied the Doctrine of Sola Scriptural. It is no longer God but self to become the authority on spiritual things.

To add more than what God had said is the evidence of being beguiled by the Devil which was traced from Eve before the fall -
Genesis 3:
[2] And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, NEITHER SHALL YE TOUCH IT, lest ye die.

Tempted men and women feel more excitement, more ecstasy and more thrill by adding something more than what God has said in the Scriptures. This is a pathetic and fallen generation of Christendom- They do as they please. They said it is God. They said it right because they are as gods. They become a law to themselves and do what is right in their own eyes. No more Sola Scriptural. What a rationale: Because there is no clear contradiction hence we will do more than what were written. There are thousands of NOs you did not say to your sons and daughters, are they deemed practicable?

Your statement 3. is one that we shall never meet. Unless there is a change for the good Word of God only - Sola Scriptural!

17/4/08 2:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A believer's faith and love are first seen in the regard for sola Scriptura. Probably, this is the root cause of the heresy of healing through the Holy Communion and even cannibalism in the Holy Communion.

23/4/08 10:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To: Anonymous 17/4/08 2:18 AM

Thanks for your reply. I expected all your statement stated.

You said:
"When the Scriptures did not expressly state a practice or belief, you don't add your own to it. The question is not limiting God but doing WHAT GOD DID NOT EXPRESSLY SAY. It is sound not to practice what God did not say than to do more than what God has said -Sound hermeneutic."

Reply:
Jerry Bridges in his book, Transforming Grace wrote, “Sometimes as Christians we can’t seem to accept the clear biblical teaching in Romans 14 that God allows equally godly people to have differing opinions on certain matters. We universalize what we think is God’s particular leading in our lives and apply it to everyone else. When we think like that we are, so to speak, “putting God in a box.” We are insisting that He must surely lead everyone as we believe He has led us. We refuse to allow God the freedom to deal with each of us as individuals. When we think like that, we are legalist. We must not seek to bind the consciences of other believers with the private convictions that arise out of our personal walk with God. Even if you believe God has led you in developing those convictions, you still must not evaluate them to the level of spiritual principles for everyone else to follow.”

The respected Puritan theologian John Owen taught that “only what God has commanded in His word should be regarded as binding; in all else there may be liberty of actions.”

If we are going to enjoy the freedom we have in Christ, we must be alert to convictions that fall into the category of differing opinions (for example, there is healing in holy communions of some Christian groups). We must not seek to bind the consciences of others or allow them to bind ours. We must stand firm in the freedom we have in Christ.

You said:
To add to the Scriptures is just as severe as to minus from the Scriptures.
Revelation 22
[18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, IF ANY MAN SHALL ADD UNTO THESE THINGS, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
[19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Reply:
That verse is referring to the book of revelation only and not the entire word of God written in the scriptures. You are applying one book to the entire bible.

You said:
God will not do more than what He has promised and spoken in His Word. The Lord Jesus Christ being the Son of God did the will of the Father according to His Word -no more or less in His perfect obedience to the Father.
The Holy Spirit will not work more than what God has spoken because He cannot deny Himself.

Reply:
God will not do more than what He has promised, spoken in His Word and his nature as God. Basically, the scripture told us that He is God and he can do whatever pleases Him. Meaning he is doing His nature as God by doing things that yes you say not expressly stated, but is in accordance to His nature as a powerful God who can heal in any circumstances that He please to use. God, our father or Holy Spirit cannot deny His nature.

If JP will insist that the healing that is happening in their celebration of Holy Communion should be applied to all churches, then I will disagree with him.

You said:
Great risk to those who denied the Doctrine of Sola Scriptural. It is no longer God but self to become the authority on spiritual things.

Reply:
I think what you mean by doctrine of Sola Scriptura is Sola Interpretation and Sola Opinion. I believe in five Solas, but I don’t believe in sola interpretations or opinions on certain Christian practices.

You said:
Because there is no clear contradiction hence we will do more than what were written. There are thousands of NOs you did not say to your sons and daughters, are they deemed practicable?

Reply:
There is no really clear contradiction, only contradiction in your interpretations or opinions in certain passages of the Bible and/or practices of some Christian groups. There are many Christian practices today that were not expressly written, but it is implied in the very nature of how God is doing in his people.

26/4/08 5:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please do not twist and turn my argument.

The Holy Communion is not a doctrine that should be tampered with human yes or no. It must be handled AS IT IS WRITTEN.

"THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME period."

Healings, cannibalism and transubstantiation are falsehoods added by Satan to deviate from Jesus Christ as the OBJECT of this Ordinance. Deviated professors become the power in their own right in corruption. Do not play God in the human glory of "HEALING" through the Holy Communion.There is absolutely no Biblical warrant for this false practice.

Again I quote: "THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME PERIOD." Take it as it is or added it with your human understanding and opinion IN CORRUPTION.

As it is written:
"THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME PERIOD."

30/4/08 8:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Anonymous 26/4/08 5:02 PM

You are arguing to prove something about yourself (your ego), young man. Your writings say so. You are never one who love God until you agree implicitly and explicitly AS IT IS WRITTEN than your own carnal old man rationale.

Read the seven churches in the Bible in Revelation 2 and 3. Which category does NCC and "the million dollar Behold My Wagon" pastor fall, in the WORDS OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. Do I envy him, a hireling worldling? Why so many Christians are deceived into this materialistic Christianity? Many are covetly materialistic themselves. Few are sincerely deceived. Are you the many or the few? But God can still deliver.

It is hard indeed for the natural man to take the Words of Christ as it is, than to fabricate fancies and opinions of human covet. These are they who are gods and the authority to themselves.

You must go to the unadulterated Words of Christ when human opinions fail. Do not lean to your own understanding. "This do in the remembrance of me." Put away the fancy of healing through the holy communion.

30/4/08 9:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 26/4/08 5:02 PM

It is foolishness to think that by adding and believing more than what Christ said is faith and glorifying to God.

It is a very dangerous thing to put things which God or Christ did not expressly said. You have put your words and experiences in God's mouth without the basis of God's Word.

You have forgotten to defend the cannibalism of the Holy Communion conducted by JP. You have some reasons to practise this, too. I guess. It is not explicitly forbidden. "This is the body and blood of Christ! Take eat and be healed of all your sicknesses." This is a "sick Christianity." A demonic offer to crucify Christ over again and again.

I wonder how could you, being so learned, keep defending things which have already been "putrid to the bone."

2Tim.3
[1] This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
[2] For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
[3] Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
[4] Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
[5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
[6] For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
[7] Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
[8] Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
[9] But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
[10] But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
[11] Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
[12] Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Please get out of this human pride, vanity and glory before worse things befall upon you.

1/5/08 1:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 1/5/08 1:17 AM
To Anonymous 30/4/08 9:34 AM
To Anonymous 30/4/08 8:12 AM

Dear Friends, I want this clear to you that I am not defending JP here because some of his teachings in Christian practices I also disagree based on my opinions or interpretations of the scripture.

I also want this clear to you that in basic Christian doctrine (salvation, trinity, preservation of saints, etc.) I fully agree with you.

But in some Christian practices, don't be mad because we have some disagreements.

That is why I qouted in my previous comment the respected Puritan theologian John Owen taught that “only what God has commanded in His word should be regarded as binding; in all else there may be liberty of actions.”

If you will conclude that all Christians has the same interpretations just like yours, therefore since the reformation we supposed to have one denomination only and reformist/protestants did not split groups and create their own denomination almost yearly until now.

In my group as Baptist, we have a lots of denominations from fundamentalist, southern, northern, missionary, seventh day baptist and other baptist group I could not remember anymore.

Why we have different groups? It is because we have different interpretations/opinions in some christian practices and teachings.

That is why I told you in my previous comment that if we are going to enjoy the freedom we have in Christ, we must be alert to convictions that fall into the category of differing opinions. We must not seek to bind the consciences of others or allow them to bind ours. We must stand firm in the freedom we have in Christ.

That is the reason why even my American missionary friend who has different opinion in the practice of Christian music we are still close friend until today because we respect each other opinions/interpretations in some Christian issues and practices.

I hope you do the same.

Shalom!

1/5/08 12:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To anonymous 30/4/08 8:12 AM

You said: "Please do not twist and turn my argument."

Reply: It means that your argument could be twisted. Why? It's an argument that limit the power and nature of God. Sorry to say, but I conclude that you are putting God in a box.

1/5/08 1:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 1/5/08 12:51 PM

Jesus said:"THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME."

If you call these doctrines of healing through the Holy Communion and cannibalism in the Holy Communion as a matter of different opinions, John Owen writings on the Holy Communion will testify against you. You have the audacity to quote a man you do not even read his polemic against transubstantiation.

There are denominational differences which we agree to disagree. Of course we have minor differences, as no two person are alike in many things. But on the issue of healing and cannibalism through and in the Holy Communion respectively; no longer they fall within the category of opinion but dogmatic theology and sound doctrine.

Churches differ in using bread or unleavened bread in the Holy Communion. Some use single chalice while others use cups and etc. These are different opinions which can be covered by brotherly love. BUT to serve the communion in the pretence of healing, will overshadow the suffering and the glory of Jesus Christ,and to serve the communion as the flesh and blood of Jesus, will make it a devotion of cannibalism; no sound minded person, much less a saved Christian would condone to such belief and practices. Do you?

You sounded like a fair, very matured man. Your intention and motive, only God knows. But your writing tells me that you are on the neutral ground where once you were on the right. It is not enough to be just a humanistic Christian but a godly Christian.

I am afraid that you are a compromiser in the faith. Unsound doctrines must be rejected outrightly. The injunction of the Scriptures to heresy and unsound doctrines is to REJECT THE HERETICK. Titus 3:10

We can stand together in different opinions, but I cannot stand with errors and heresy. BECAUSE I WILL WEAKEN TRUTH AND STRENGTHEN ERROR.
GOD REQUIRES.

3/5/08 1:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Anonymous 1/5/08 1:01 PM

You are not replying objectively but childishly.

I believe you must have taken much of flesh and blood of Jesus in JP's holy communion.

I am with God together in the box of His Word. If you stay out, it is at your own peril.

JESUS SAID:
THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME

3/5/08 1:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 3/5/08 1:28 AM

You said:

If you call these doctrines of healing through the Holy Communion and cannibalism in the Holy Communion as a matter of different opinions, John Owen writings on the Holy Communion will testify against you. You have the audacity to quote a man you do not even read his polemic against transubstantiation.

Reply:

I am not saying that this is a doctrine and I don't believe in cannibalism either.

What I believe is if healings is happening in JP's church while they are doing the holy communion and it does not happen in our church here in the Phil. or in your church, it does not mean that if there is healing (in whatever circumstances/activities in the church. eg. holy communion, preaching,singing, etc.) it is not the working of God anymore because it was not explicitly written in the Bible.

I am qouting John Owen in one of his writings and not his entire writings.

Just like what you have written here which I can qoute because I also believe some of it, but not all you have stated here specifically some of your opinions and interpretations.

24/5/08 7:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've read many of the above comments and just thought i would like to chare something with you guys from the bottom of my heart. Before i start, i would like to say that whatever i say here, is based on my personal opinion. Okay. Firstly, i would like to say that Pastor Joseph Prince, is truly an annointed preacher, and a very Great Man of God. If you had noticed, everything he teaches points you to Jesus. Not himself! As for this piece of article, my reply would be Joseph prince is right by saying that the Lord's supper is there, to bless you, give you healing and so on.. Weather it is right or not, i leave it up to you to decide. But for myself i choose to believe and recieve it. The only thing i can do is to pray for you asking God to open your spritual eyes and heart to let his love fall upon you. By the way, just some background information about myself, im a singaporean and i'm only 15 his year. Please do not be shock. I really wrote this comment as i can feel something pushing me to write it. GodBless!:D

28/5/08 11:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous 28/5/08 11:43 PM
You said,
"Okay. Firstly, i would like to say that Pastor Joseph Prince, is truly an annointed preacher, and a very Great Man of God."
This "a very Great Man of God." remark is amounting to hero and human worship-this is too much. I have discovered that many have deitified JP.

You need to pray for deeper and true discernment about God's servant - a hireling or a servant of God? A coveted hireling or a selfless man of God? Read the Bible about the life of Jesus and the Apostles so different from JP. Read your Bible, young man, It is better than your opinions.

29/5/08 7:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 24/5/08 7:31 PM

THE LORD JESUS SAID: THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME

FIRST, you said:
"I am not saying that this is a doctrine and I don't believe in cannibalism either."

Do you take the holy communion of JP? Do you take transubstantial holy communion? This is religious cannibalism. They are led to believe that it is the actual blood and body of the Lord Jesus Christ in the communion which he is administering..

He is conducting a cannibalistic communion. You have come to a point - to turn back to the narrow way, is impossible, but only God can do for you.

SECOND, you said “I am not saying that this is a doctrine…”

If you believe, agree and sanction in a practice, you are establishing a doctrine you condone in. How can you deny it as a doctrine and yet sanction its practice habitually. You do not know what you are talking and doing. In the modern word: you are blurred. Please read your reply carefully, you are a sifting sand as far as now is concern. But something good will take effect on you if you obey His Word strictly in faith in Christ. THIS DO IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.

THIRD, you said,
“Just like what you have written here which I can qoute because I also believe some of it, but not all you have stated here specifically some of your opinions and interpretations.”

I am honoured that you believe some of it, but this is not what I am driving at. I quoted a lot of Scriptures and very plainly as even the the blog writer had quoted:
THIS DO IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME of Jesus’ Word.

Honour God in His Word and He shall give you the light of His Truth. I believe one day, you will come through against healing and cannibalism in the Holy Communion.

FOURTH, you said
“I am quoting John Owen in one of his writings and not his entire writings.”

Nobody ask you to quote the entire 16 volumes of Owen’s writings.
Next time do not quote John Owen in part but study his writings comprehensively. This is the problem why so many have deviated from the Scriptures because they take single verse to establish their practices in part, not in whole counsel of God. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. My friend, you have many more years to go. Do right and walk aright in Christ.

THIS DO IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME - JESUS SAID REPEATEDLY.
But JP said “Wholeness and healing through the Holy Communion.”

WHO IS LYING? WHO IS RIGHT? JESUS OR Joe? Are you lying with JP by condoning to his doctrine and practice? Be straight - it is either or? Be not a Midianite. Mr. “Phil”, do not give in to lying doctrine and practice or you will find yourself to be in the same.

I am done in writing and replying to you. Let God can do the work of grace in your heart to stand on His side against error and heresy. The day when the truth of God dawn in your soul about these erroneous doctrines, I will heartily rejoice with you. Not till then I will pray for you - JESUS SAID, “THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME.”

29/5/08 7:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone attended Benny Hinn 2006??

He share on the Holy Communion and in it is HEALING.

16/7/08 12:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Christianity is treading on VERY dangerous ground when "super" pastors are worshipped with super pays. They are no longer the self- denying servants of God but hirelings that exploit the riches of the church. Others using secular entertaining gimmicks to deceive the simple-minded who wished to be entertained in church worship and meetings. They do these things in the name of Jesus Christ. It is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible but another christ of another gospel.

They are using healings to draw desperate people who craved desperately to be healed in terminal cases of diseases, giving false hope to those who want to live forever, like Shin Huang-Ti.

These false healers were there long before the New Testament economy, i.e in the Old Testament's time:
Jeremiah 6:
[13] For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
[14] They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.
[15] Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
[16] Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

Do I believe in God's healing through Christ? Of course, I do.

But God's healing is not confined to holy communions, or conducted in healing sessions etc. or to any particular one man but through simple believing prayers of elders in the church or anyone, anywhere even in a believer's home who are in good spiritual condition.

James 5
FOR ALL BELIEVERS INCLUDING THE AFFLICTED
[13] Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
FOR ELDERS OF THE CHURCH
[14] Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
CONDITION OF THE ELDERS WHO PRAY FOR THE SICK
[15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
CONDITION FOR THE BELIEVERS' FAITH WHO PRAY FOR THE SICK
[16] Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
EXAMPLE OF A MAN OF PRAYER AND FAITH
[17] Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
[18] And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

HALLELUJAH!
GOD IS ABSOLUTELY SOVEREIGN.

17/7/08 12:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

These false healers are so bold to perform opened faith-healing in the holy communions and sessions, let them go to the society of the blind, orthopaedic wards, and to hospitals to conduct healing sessions there. It can only be a miraculous healing when the healing is done on the permanently disabled.

One of the Chinese missionary, preacher, pastor did this by the grace of God in the 1930s, Dr. John Sung. It was testified in the Fukien province during his times, that hospitals were emptied through hours of protracted prayers. Healing sessions of John Sung were never at all announced publicly during the evangelistic campaigns, much less by modern publicity.

The Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ did these things in every where they went. Read Book of Acts.

Do you believe in some covetous, materialistic, prosperity and health pastors who dare claim to have "healing powers"? It is a matter of time that God will expose their hypocritical living, covetousness and worldly gimmicks.

Many true believers are blinded today by worldliness. They are misled into secularism in Christian orgs. They cannot see the worldiness of these imposters who creep into the church unaware. The mega churches pays heftily for these "pastors" in the US and Singapore.

Singapore now is plagued by first Charity org. in TT Durai's case, and The Roman Catholics scandal, and now with Ming Yi of Ren Ci and the Muslim leader. Will the protestant churches wake up and expose big-time opportunists and pilferers in the church?
1. Leaders/committees in conspiracy, pay themselves highly.
2. Purchasing properties in their own names with church funds.
3. Etc. all forms of corruption. (First class air travel)etc.
Are your day to day church adminstration, transparent? Do you know what God's tithes are being used for? While there are so many good works need to be accomplished with God's tithes, what are they being used for? Big cars, big houses, secular investments and expensive travels?
You give tithings to God. You have the responsibility and right to know how weekly tithes are being spent. Do not let the organisation keep this from you.

19/7/08 12:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

With the prevalent of false doctrines, it will consequence in much false and unethical practices. The recent spade of charity and religious scandals have prompted to the general public of the sad declension of religion. You can literally name the many scandals of charity and religious leaders in Singapore.

I wish the authority will make a thorough investigation on the mega churches concerning the usage of the offerings given by benevolent sincere Chrisiians that it will be use appropriately than commercially, personally and others.

Healing through the Holy Communion is definitely a corrupted doctrines. These healers can hardly heal their own commmon cold and cough, much less to heal others. They keep aspirins with them. Ask them where did they go when they are sick? They propagate health that they need not go for any medical checkup because their life is right with God being healthy. Health and prosperity gospel is another gospel.

I pray that God will use the authority to render a thorough check on the accounts of all the Mega Churches in Singapore that if there is any leaven, it may be purged, before the whole lump gets worse.

23/7/08 5:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok your whole argument of Prince is completely stupid.One because you say he left out the verses where he said to do it in remembrance of him.Either way the truth still remains that the bread and the wine is the body and blood of Jesus which is life and healing.Because he bled for us,and he gave himself for us.Its sad you have something against him because he is truly spreading the gospel.

26/8/08 11:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So is this saying that when you have communion with God we arent healed?Because if we have communion with him our sins are forgiven,and as we saw when Jesus forgave the sins of the sick they were healed.

26/8/08 11:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To:Anonymous 26/8/08 11:36 AM

Error/perversion or deviation does not depict stupidity, though you said so, not I.
You said:
"Ok your whole argument of Prince is completely stupid." If it occurs to you, it is so with you.
Please do not make yourself to be the same.

There is such a thing as spiritual darkness and blindness. Jesus said, "THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME."

27/8/08 8:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To: Anonymous 26/8/08 11:39 AM

You use the word "communion" twice in different things.
The word, "Communion" has two meanings. You are confuse. Which are you refering to? Holy Communion or communion with God?
Jesus was never at any one time conducting holy communion to heal the sick unlike many hirelings of our days. But JESUS was at all time in communion with God the Father and the HEALINGS DONE BY JESUS are EFFECTUAL both physical(bodily - sickness, physical infirmities from birth) and spiritual(forgivenss of sins) irregardless of the condition of sinners but not today's material rich and greedy imposters.

JESUS SAID: THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME.

27/8/08 9:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reply to
Anonymous 26/8/08 11:36 AM

When you call a person stupid without the Bible supporting and substantiating your remarks, you become a "smart" elac, and an accuser of brethren. It is sad that simpletons often ended up in this attitude and manner.

Jesus had said, "This do in the remembrance of me."

Do you think prince and others know more than Jesus and do more than Jesus? Jesus did not talk about healing in the holy communion and never at all talk about forgiveness in the holy communion.

You are not contradicting this blog writer, wooQ and others but Jesus HImself. This is spiritual blindness.(Anonymous:"There is such a thing as spiritual darkness and blindness.")

4/9/08 3:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Anonymous 26/8/08 11:36 AM
You wrote:
"Either way the truth still remains that the bread and the wine is the body and blood of Jesus which is life and healing.Because he bled for us,and he gave himself for us.Its sad you have something against him because he is truly spreading the gospel."

THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME.
You can have your own strange and imaginery blood and body of Jesus, heresy is hard to convince. May God open up your spiritual understanding of the Holy Communion.
But for now, if you are adamant to believe on in eating of Christ body and drinking of Christ blood in the Holy Communion, you do it to the detriment of your deceived soul. You cannot plead the basis of ignorance when true judgment of God comes to the door of your life.
THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME

13/9/08 6:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Anonymous 26/8/08 11:36 AM
You wrote:
"Ok your whole argument of Prince is completely stupid.....Its sad you have something against him because he is truly spreading the gospel."

I sure have some things against him. It is not on personal matter but some things related to the faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and the doctrines and practices of Christianity about him.

Let me highlight one of them:
SELF-JUSTIFICATON IN HIGH LIVING IN THE PRETENCE OF GOD'S GIFT

The wickedness of justifying exorbitant, luxurious and excess living IN MANY THINGS esp.in his dreamed car "Behold My Wagon" which is totally contradicting the teachings of Jesus Christ for all His sent-servants to be self-denying and in the teachings of the Apostles in the Epistles.

I have heard from many simple who attended his meetings. They live thriftily, saving every cent and give liberally to the church as tithes and offerings but this "shepherd" lavishes them for his luxury and ironically / openly justified himself that it is God's gift.

If this is not the description of a religious opportunist what is? Do you think Jesus would live like princy does? Do you think Paul, Apollos, John, Cephas and others would live and paid like he does? You guys are paying him millions to lavish, at the expense of your austerity measures. You are not giving to God but to man!

55 millions received as tithes and offering, and millions of dollars goes to one man. What kind of church is this? Instead of saving as much as possible to minimise the building loan, you will have to borrow more with greater interest. You people will have to food the bill and are living in the red for 20 years while he has his millions tucked in his many pockets. There is no more ethics and moral left in this kind of Christianity. Who is stupid?
JESUS WEPT!

13/9/08 7:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is a horrifying irony of today's Christianity in the mega church organisations here in Singapore and around the world especially in the West.

Considering Mr. George Lim's S.T. Forum letter on the 13th Sept. there are truths in it that warrant the salary and assets of mega religious leaders to be published.

A "shepherd" that goes around in a limousine, wearing first class Amani-class or made clothings, never even get to know a few hundreds of his thousands of followers personally, preaches on the Sunday, comes like a VIP and lavishes basically on God's holy treasury, the tithe and offerings of simple, benevolent givers and donors. When a pastor does not feel guilty in these self-indulgences, he is no longer a simple person.

And some simpletons are pleased to let him have the pleasures of this life. They wrap up together in full consent - "There is no corruption, deviation etc."
But where is the moral and spirituality of self-denying in the Christianity preached by our Lord Jesus Christ?

The "shepherd" is happy about the happy simpletons. He feeds them with mixed doctrines of sound and error. They bless him. They also dream that they can live high in earthly-hopes like him.

It is definitely wrong to say that all pastors must live impoverishedly. There is a difference between impoverished and self-deny living; as there is a difference between poverty and contentment.

I wonder what do these pastors receive from God's holy treasury in millions of dollars for? How many steaks can you eat for a lunch and dinner? How many houses can he lives at one time? How long can you fly in a business class ticket? Golden tap for water? If these are questions being asked in the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is it not absurd to be found in the life of Christ's preachers or even in charity leaders? Unless, the preacher ceased to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ but another gospel which is after man.

Some spiritual advices to the pastors and staff leaders who receive over-excessed salaries from God's treasury or pay among themselves thus wise:

1.TAKE what is NEEDED for PROPER AND DECENT LIVING from God's treasury. While our majestic Lord Jesus lived on earth, He did not have so much money as to fish out a dime from the water to pay His taxes. He said to those who wanted to follow Him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nest but the Son of man has nowhere to lay His head." Yet when He sent His disciples away to serve, JESUS SAID: "a workman is worthy of his hire." It is clear that Jesus did not support impoverished living neither did He support excesses. CONTENTMENT IS THE PRINCIPLE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST IN THE GOSPEL.

2. DO NOT take from God's treasury in extreme excesses and justify yourselves to put it into your accounts to give to the poor and needy, in your own name for your own glory. Some said in justifying their pastors' excessive basic salary:"Though our Pastor so and so is paid so highly but he is also giving to the poor and needy." That is religious hypocrisy. He took the excesses from God and count it his own.

3. Neither should you live in high living, with the excesses from God's treasury. This is religious greed and avarice in the sight of God.

4. If you are able to earn much in personal earnings and businesses, remember you are still obliged to give tithe and offerings to GOD! Abraham, a servant of God, gave tithe to Melchizedek (a type of Christ).

"Isn't this a money talk?" Someone said. Do you know why there are so many "money talks"?
Because when prosperity comes, even spiritual leaders are found to be poor in handling money. Greed has often times taken the better of them. "The love of money is the root of all evil."

Pastors and leaders if you are reading this, may God be pleased to move you to do right by His Grace.

JESUS SAID: "THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME, PERIOD" in the institution of His Supper.

26/9/08 8:36 PM  
Blogger cheayee said...

wow.... so many stuff..

jst leaving ink. ha ha ha...

30/9/08 8:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nowadays Scripture has been handled so frivolously, in the sense any interpretation can be given to a passage of Scripture, or this means coming up with a doctrine as to how i see it. John 14:28 ...my Father is greater than I. so this means that Jesus in terms of glory, power, holiness is lesser than God the Father? Such instances like that are misused by cults, let alone preachers who want to create any doctrine they think its right without consideration for the whole canon of Scripture. More often than not, what we like Scripture to say is not what it actually says!

When we handle God's Word, it is not any document that is written by man, but by God, whom even is judge over the most righteous judges! like bao gong in china history?

A lawyer who handles the facts of a court case or interprets the law, can he ever say what is contrary? there are heavy repurcussions! what more someone who handles thelogy? He ought to be extra careful! since law is not perfect, but God is!

In law you have to be accurate. in thelogy you have to be extra accurate!

5/10/08 2:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Anonymous 5/10/08 2:08 PM

I am sorry that I do not know where you are coming from. Write plainly and in simplicity then you will not be so confuse with verses in the Bible.

DIFFERENT VERSES TO STUDY DIFFERENTLY
John 14:28 "...MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I" This is a pure doctrinal verse and have to be studied differently from straightforward Bible verse like: THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME." The formal is deeply doctrinal (The Father in Person is in precession greatness but co-equal in oneness of essence and glory with the Son and Holy Spirit)but the latter is simply practical part of the doctrine of the Holy Communion.It is to be studied as is - THIS DO IN THE REMEMBRANCE OF ME PERIOD. Isn't this what it actually says?

What kind of pathetic fantasied intellectualism and rationalism you are writing about, you wrote, quote: "More often than not, what we like Scripture to say is not what it actually says!"

SALVATION AND SANCTIFICATION
Human law is imperfect but God's Law is perfect.God's Law is good. His law is to point out sin. The person must first be convicted as a sinner before God before he realise that he needs a Saviour. This is the function of God's Law in the Gospel. Jesus taught the Law of God and He simplifies IT.
When the person flee to Christ as the Law of God condemns him, he finds salvation in Christ through God's Grace. Now he is saved by grace, he begin to enjoy the Law of God in Christ. Now the Law of God cannot condemn him anymore. He walks with Christ as he study the law of God to be holy. The Holy Spirit sanctifies him through Christ. He enjoys Christ, he enjoys the law of God, he enjoys everything in the Bible. Outside the Bible there is nothing spiritual but spiritual darkness.

5/10/08 4:39 PM  

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